tiger DEGUNNING revisited. pics will make you laugh.

[tormented]

remember my degunning thread a little while ago?

i said that the damage model for the tiger had a yellow colored (weak) main gun. well i just looked at the link that clone9cz posted, and it shows almost all damage models, and the tigers barrel was yellow, then i also saw the S76 barrel which was orange. lololololol and the S35 had a completely red barrel (un-degunnable).

this makes me laugh.

whats the explaination for this?

Edited August 28, 2012 by tormented

[gervleth]

BS total bs. Everyone knows the tiger in game is fake armor wise and 76 stronger then it actually was. Weaker barrel?????????

[tormented]

BS total bs. Everyone knows the tiger in game is fake armor wise and 76 stronger then it actually was. Weaker barrel?????????

lol back when i was allied tanker, i used to think that axis tankers complaining about tiger being degunned are noobs... i always backed it up with "tiger has bigger barrel, so its easier to hit" but now that i see this i am LITERALLY LAUGHING my glutoius maximus off.

[gervleth]

sigh this is very frusterating

[tormented]

yes it is. degunning really takes away the spirit of true tanking :/ and thats not the only thing either, look at the tigers mantlet... in real life its 120mm, but in game its yellow and weak, even if it is 90 degrees.. still. 120mm is still tough to penetrate.

[kamel]

*sigh*

The colours in the damage model are more to differentiate different model parts. Not a function of armour thickness between models.

Or didn't you notice that the Tiger's hull and turret is mostly orange, as is the Sherman?

In game those armour thicknesses are demonstratedly different, so therefore it is fairly obvious that your basic premise is well... bullcrap.

But then anyone who had bothered to test the gun damage thresholds and break levels could tell you that...

But don't let facts get in the way of screwing that tin foil hat on tighter.

[tormented]

*sigh*

The colours in the damage model are more to differentiate different model parts. Not a function of armour thickness between models.

Or didn't you notice that the Tiger's hull and turret is mostly orange, as is the Sherman?

In game those armour thicknesses are demonstratedly different, so therefore it is fairly obvious that your basic premise is well... bullcrap.

But then anyone who had bothered to test the gun damage thresholds and break levels could tell you that...

But don't let facts get in the way of screwing that tin foil hat on tighter.

not sure if serious? or just stupid? sherman hull sides are 1 behind the otehr, but both are orange, which means when they are overlapped they LOOK red, although that are orange. sigh your premis is well, pure idiocy and mediocrety

[gervleth]

*sigh*

The colours in the damage model are more to differentiate different model parts. Not a function of armour thickness between models.

Or didn't you notice that the Tiger's hull and turret is mostly orange, as is the Sherman?

In game those armour thicknesses are demonstratedly different, so therefore it is fairly obvious that your basic premise is well... bullcrap.

But then anyone who had bothered to test the gun damage thresholds and break levels could tell you that...

But don't let facts get in the way of screwing that tin foil hat on tighter.

............................. LOL CRS has stated many times that the colours are the armor thickness and weak spots.

Edited August 28, 2012 by gervleth

[chiefjr]

*sigh*

The colours in the damage model are more to differentiate different model parts. Not a function of armour thickness between models.

Or didn't you notice that the Tiger's hull and turret is mostly orange, as is the Sherman?

In game those armour thicknesses are demonstratedly different, so therefore it is fairly obvious that your basic premise is well... bullcrap.

But then anyone who had bothered to test the gun damage thresholds and break levels could tell you that...

But don't let facts get in the way of screwing that tin foil hat on tighter.

So then why are the extremely thin exhaust housings, fenders and side skirts on the Tiger green? And why is the commander's hatch ring yellow (weaker with panzer-glass view ports) and the hatch itself red?

Curious people are curious.

~r

[stankyus]

color does not denote armor thickness

[smythes]

The Tiger gun is already buffed:

"When we did research on the number of tanks degunned in various tank forces during the later stages of WWII we were stunned at how high the number was. Interestingly enough the Tiger had the highest percentage of all, although in the game it has the highest resistance (coded) to damage to the gun ... so don't suddenly go off thinking we made it the easiest to degun. It is in fact the most highly protected in this regard, but tends to survive so many hits that would totally destoy other tanks (or their crew) that you just experience it more often. It's not a co-incidence you experience this in the StuG.IIIg either, as it is second only in survival of hits ability to the tiger, on the Axis side."

DOC posted this previously.

Unless the code altered there is an advantage to having a Tiger that has a buffed gun.

The disadvanatge is that you will live longer than your gun due to your heavy armour.

[kamel]

not sure if serious? or just stupid? sherman hull sides are 1 behind the otehr' date=' but both are orange, which means when they are overlapped they LOOK red, although that are orange. sigh your premis is well, pure idiocy and mediocrety [/quote']

and if they are orange... but only 50mm thick... and the tiger sides are orange... but 80mm thick... and the tiger frontal hull is orange... but 100mm thick...

That says that your premis is... wrong.

............................. LOL CRS has stated many times that the colours are the armor thickness and weak spots.

No, they stated that the colours represent internal components, and external fittings, but actual armour thicknesses cannot be compared between vehicles based on the colours because the scale for colour to actual thicknesses is different from vehicle to vehicle.

Obviously you have chosen to mishear... many times.

So then why are the extremely thin exhaust housings, fenders and side skirts on the Tiger green? And why is the commander's hatch ring yellow (weaker with panzer-glass view ports) and the hatch itself red?

Curious people are curious.

~r

Commanders cupola ring tests as 75mm or so in thickness. Don't think the 'glass' bits are in the model. <== my tests and opinion, not CRS.

Given that the difficulty in penetrating cupola ring and side turret is fairly similar... what does that say about any theory of colour = armour. Mind you, hull side and hull front on the tiger is the same colour.... which should be an even more glaring inconsistancy in said arguement. But hey, don't let logic get in the way of a good rant.

As for other colours... well. I'd lay bets on the programmer clicking them and choosing 'green' from the menu, or 'yellow'. The pictures were meant to show how the internal components look in the damage model and the pictures were probably banged together as a quick and dirty demo. Not meant to be analysed to death by the nerf brigade.

I wonder why we don't get nice things... or even updates much any more?

I don't care what any of you think the picture looks like.

If the armour tests in game show a given thickness, then I'll go over that test rather than some bull**** analysis of a picture someone got third hand.

Honestly. Every year some twerp hauls out those same old pictures and yells 'BIAS!!!, NERF!!!'

and every year we have to slap them down with the same explanations that they totally refuse to believe until a Rat shows up and gives them the same bloody explanation that they are just being dumb... again.

What is it? A rite of passage in Axis squads to grab a noobie, prime him with misinformation, and send him into the forums like some kind of kamikaze lemming?

[bionicg]

I like the new camoflage patterns. It will really jazz up the battlefield. Please could we have infantry with disco shirts too?

[pauker]

lol back when i was allied tanker' date=' i used to think that axis tankers complaining about tiger being degunned are noobs... i always backed it up with "tiger has bigger barrel, so its easier to hit" but now that i see this i am LITERALLY LAUGHING my glutoius maximus off.[/quote']

Don´t belive what an axis tanker is claiming - it is always bs and whining.

You should believe the allied experts, because they know axis gear already when they tried it half a decade before (and if not, then they fought in WW2 IRL at both sides at the same time - so what they say must be the truth)!

But i can understand you totally - driving an axis tank is something to do when you have lots of time to waste. (same as this topic, btw.)

See it from the positive perspective - in your tiger you will be seen from any plane flying in orbit (couldn´t figure out whats the sence for it).

But sry, i cannot laugh about it, its just too sad - so resignation is the only thing whats left!

[smythes]

You should believe the allied experts, because they know axis gear already when they tried it half a decade before (and if not, then they fought in WW2 IRL at both sides at the same time - so what they say must be the truth)!

So DOC is an allied expert?

[pauker]

So DOC is an allied expert?

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showpost.php?p=555925&postcount=105

-- -When I asked about main guns being knocked out by enemy fire he looked me like I was nuts and said that he had never heard of it happening although he said he supposed it must have been possible... just an incredibly lucky hit. - - -

[smythes]

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showpost.php?p=555925&postcount=105

-- -When I asked about main guns being knocked out by enemy fire he looked me like I was nuts and said that he had never heard of it happening although he said he supposed it must have been possible... just an incredibly lucky hit. - - -

Right.

My Grandad says there where never any Spitfires in the Desert - ergo - there where never any Spitfires in the desert.

Do you beleive him?

[pauker]

Right.

My Grandad says there where never any Spitfires in the Desert - ergo - there where never any Spitfires in the desert.

Do you beleive him?

LOL,

I see how idiotic some ppl can be. What a vet is telling from his memories cannot be true, because authors who wrote stuff down try to teach us otherwise.

I tell you what - i do believe the word from an old vet who fought and survived the war million times more than any bookwriter (what ever reason they have for selling their books and getting money for it).

This old guy propably don´t had any intention to say something which was fitting the "official POV" or not - he simply was sharing from his knowledge, while every author from any written article has to go conform the "social mainstream" in order to sell his elaborate.

Do you believe for a second, that writing (and selling) a book in cold war times saying something other than the US/ western allieds are the greatest savior of the world with of course the best, most superior and advanced technical sience will have the same chance to be successful on the market?

If someone is writing a book today about the Iran/Iraque theme - the facts are not so important than keeping the clean picture of the western hemispahre up.

Hehe - books about one of the darkest periode of human beeing always are coming with some sort of politics.

You think the economical market is free from politics? Totally wrong - open your eyes; even in the soaps each day in any TV is filled with politics. In our oh so free world, we are living in a media-dictatorship.

Thats why i do believe the words from that old man much more than any writers who used "filtered material". As long as many files from that dark periode (ww2) still are classified, the real facts still remaining in cover. Why else the classification of many files from that time recently was exented to 2060? What needs to be hidden from public?

This old guy (Lindemann) was on the defeated side of the war - what intention he would have to "bend" his answers into a "political correct" way?

When you read the whole thread about Lindemann - specially how and when he was injured - blocking the gun barrel with rocks and firing remote HE in order to make the tank unusable; this procedure was comon when a tank-crew abandoned a tank (and if there was time to do that) - no wonder to see a lot of degunned tigers in the end of the war.

Just imagine what the first allied platoon was claiming, when they found the tiger - yep right, they claimed the tiger-kill by degunning it. And if they didn´t, their command propably did it for pretty logical reasons - to raise the morale of own troops and take the fear of tigers away.

You think any "smart " bookwriter would have a chance to make money when claiming that the tank-crew destroyed their tank and not the platoon? It comes to my mind, what US-officials tried to tell the public about Bin Laden and his end (this guy needed to be shoot in "self defence" - lol, now there are voices who claim, that Bin Laden already was defenseless and his firearms wasn´t even loaded). Politics and "media-dictatorship" ^^

[clone9cz]

remember my degunning thread a little while ago?

i said that the damage model for the tiger had a yellow colored (weak) main gun. well i just looked at the link that clone9cz posted, and it shows almost all damage models, and the tigers barrel was yellow, then i also saw the S76 barrel which was orange. lololololol and the S35 had a completely red barrel (un-degunnable).

this makes me laugh.

whats the explaination for this?

Please do not post damage logs.

Not the least of which is that this is entirely irrelevant. The component you referenced is an internal gun mount component used to spread damage to itself and to other components. The "color" in the above indicates armor thickness equivalents of the hit object. The component here has damage objects including the gun barrel, the hull ammo and the turret ammo.

- Gophur

I think, the big thing at the end of gun (muzzle break) will be problem.

Edited September 5, 2012 by GOPHUR

[smythes]

LOL,

Thats exactly what I thought of your response.

Answering with a conspiracy theory is not proper history.

[tormented]

..

[GOPHUR]

The colors are relative to the model not absolute to equivalent mm of RHA.

Questions, I often say, save a lot of time compared to conclusions. But I'll take a moment to look at the data this afternoon and see if anything is odd.

----

Both barrels are 20mm RHA which is a standard we use across the board for barrels. The tiger is slightly more robust in max damage it can take before catastrophic failure but not significantly. Just enough to account for it being a BFG.

I can't account for your testing results being completely opposite of the data but I'm willing to look at it given a more precise testing methodology.

Edited September 5, 2012 by GOPHUR

[GOPHUR]

BS total bs. Everyone knows the tiger in game is fake armor wise and 76 stronger then it actually was. Weaker barrel?????????

Challenge accepted o' mighty myth spreader. Which armor values would you like to inquire about?