New SPAA

[ltarmoil]

First off, thank you for adding the SPAA to the game,  it's much needed and a big step to one day having proper AA platforms for the game.

There is an audio problem when using the SPAA on the Axis side (not sure if Allies have same issue, could not confirm)  when using the gun the player can hear the gun firing and operating as normal. When a player or other Flak gun is near they/we can not hear the gun firing at all.  We ran several tests at different basses to see if it effected the audio, it did not change.   If you're next to the weapon either on foot or any other veh you can see the gun shooting, but can not hear it.   

The Flak28 & Flak30 still sound fine and can hear them firing, but not the new SPAA.  

Side note,  the SPAA has a more rapid firing rate than that of the 40mm Bofors, I'm assuming that this is due to the gun being modeled after the 37mm Flak gun the Germans used during WW2.   That being said,  It fires more quickly, but does chew up ammo at a considerable rate, is there a reason the SPAA  only gets 49 mags instead of the 99mags the Bofors has?   Seems if anything, the ammo loadouts should be the same OR swapped.  Bofors-49mags, SPAA-99mags,  seems more logical. 

Overall I'm glad to see this veh in the game and look forward to new additions in the future. 

[PITTPETE]

Known issue

[Blkhwk8]

My guess on the amount of mags is to balance the higher rate of fire.

 

[delems]

idk, the boors had a 120 ROF ?

The early 37mm (Flak 18) had 80 ROF and the later one (which is in game?) had 120 ROF, Flak 36 37mm.

The final 37mm (Flak 43) had 150 ROF.

 

So, the 37mm didn't have a higher ROF really, unless we modeled the very latest version.

Pretty sure we have the Flak 36 37mm, which is about 120 ROF - same as bofors - so it would seem all the guns should have the same ammo load as well as ROF.

 

[stankyus]

First off, I have not been ingame since patch but ... what delems said about the ROF.

Second, the HT is carrying the FLAK28 - it needs not to mimic the late flak37 at all if that actually is the case which I highly doubt. There is no reason to up the Flak28s ROF if indeed it is firing at 150 RPM. Somehow I have a hard time believing that to be the case.  Regardless even if it is mimicking the flak37 - then the round should have a shell about 2/3rds the weight of the bofors round, and just over half the distance which would equate to higher rate of decreasing energy and drop for the game.   Like I said - highly doubt that's the case.  IF the ROF is indeed faster - it needs to be dropped down to the 120 RPM... and I would call it a mistake.

Third - as for the initial ammo count.. don't see why we don't have a 99 clip load... but because you are mobile, I guess it is easier to get to a FMS, RTB or ammo crate.   I rather have more ammo personally but TBH, it really does not matter so much I guess.

[Merlin51]

 

11 minutes ago, stankyus said:

Second, the HT is carrying the FLAK28

No, it is not.
Read the patch notes. and posts
BOFORS ARTWORK IS TEMP STAND IN UNTIL 3.7CM FLAK 36 ART IS FINISHED

Under the hood it is a 3.7cm Flak36, it works to Flak36 specs, it fires Flak36 AMMO

Instead of just flying on auto-doubt, how about read?

New Content (SPAAs)

• Sd.Kfz 7/2 AA (Axis Forces)
• Crusader III AA Mk1 (All Allied Forces)

For the time being, the Sd.Kfz 7/2 AA is using the current Bofors gun for its artwork, until the actual 37mm FlaK 36 AA artwork can be made game ready. The data in use IS for the 37mmFlaK 36 AA however.

On the other hand the Crusader III AA Mk1 is mounting the tried and true “Bofors 40mm Automatic Gun”.

Supply Availability (SPAAs)

To start, we will have the following for SPAA availability:

• Tier 1 and onward (not available in Tier 0)
• Infantry brigade: 10
• Armor brigade: 10
• Division HQ: 20
• Naval brigade: 10
• Air brigade: 20
• Available for Premium Subscription
  • Upgrade to premium at http://www.wwiionline.com/account 
• Rank required: 5+

[HATCH]

It is indeed the Flak36 "under the hood" shooting the 635gm 3.7cm HEI Sprgr Patr L'Spur 18. My best data sources show cyclic rate of 150-160 RPM for 3.7mm Flak18, Bk3.7, and Flak36, with 250 RPM for the later Flak43. Both Bofors and Flak36 share same reload time between clips.

These sources also  have the SdKfz 7/2 carrying 120 rounds (with another 432 on a towed trailer) and the Crusader AA MkI loaded with 160. The regular towed systems give you 300 rounds. After some internal discussion we decided for the initial deployment of these vehicles to give both SPAA's more than they historically carried on the vehicle, but less than the towed units to 1) help the towed units retain their usefulness, and 2) make the SPAA's more dependent on other player support to keep you shooting in place without having to go for back for ammo, which has the added benefit of making it a little more difficult to camp AB's for extended periods of time by oneself.

We'll see how things work out and adjust as necessary.     

[delems]

What I found:

Flak 18 37mm: It used a mechanical bolt for automatic fire, featuring a practical rate of fire of about 80 rounds per minute (rpm).

Flak 36 37mm: The gun's ballistic characteristics were not changed, although the practical rate of fire was raised to 120 rpm (250 rpm theoretical).

Flak 43 37mm: A new gas-operated breech increased the practical firing rate to 150 RPM.

No idea on the veracity.

But if accurate, maybe could use for tier changes of gear?  Flak 36 tier 1 and 2; and finally Flak 43 tier 3+?

Also could allow FPA the Flak 18 as entry gear (or reserve starter?).

Finally, all of these as ground weapons towed would be nice too , then some could start in tier 0 for towing.

 

Here is Flak 43 ammo picture, showing 8 rounds: (not 4 or 5)

Edited December 19, 2017 by delems

[stankyus]

23 hours ago, merlin51 said:

 

No, it is not.
Read the patch notes. and posts
BOFORS ARTWORK IS TEMP STAND IN UNTIL 3.7CM FLAK 36 ART IS FINISHED

Under the hood it is a 3.7cm Flak36, it works to Flak36 specs, it fires Flak36 AMMO

Instead of just flying on auto-doubt, how about read?

New Content (SPAAs)

• Sd.Kfz 7/2 AA (Axis Forces)
• Crusader III AA Mk1 (All Allied Forces)

For the time being, the Sd.Kfz 7/2 AA is using the current Bofors gun for its artwork, until the actual 37mm FlaK 36 AA artwork can be made game ready. The data in use IS for the 37mmFlaK 36 AA however.

On the other hand the Crusader III AA Mk1 is mounting the tried and true “Bofors 40mm Automatic Gun”.

Supply Availability (SPAAs)

To start, we will have the following for SPAA availability:

• Tier 1 and onward (not available in Tier 0)
• Infantry brigade: 10
• Armor brigade: 10
• Division HQ: 20
• Naval brigade: 10
• Air brigade: 20
• Available for Premium Subscription
  • Upgrade to premium at http://www.wwiionline.com/account 
• Rank required: 5+

LOL.. yah got around to reading the read me after loading the game last night.  Rather it be the flak28, then do another with the flak36 37mm. More veriety, mb make it a flak36 zwiling or however you spell it with the dual barrels. I am kinda surprised by it all.  That is fine, but why kill the model, lets just add another.

[stankyus]

9 hours ago, HATCH said:

It is indeed the Flak36 "under the hood" shooting the 635gm 3.7cm HEI Sprgr Patr L'Spur 18. My best data sources show cyclic rate of 150-160 RPM for 3.7mm Flak18, Bk3.7, and Flak36, with 250 RPM for the later Flak43. Both Bofors and Flak36 share same reload time between clips.

These sources also  have the SdKfz 7/2 carrying 120 rounds (with another 432 on a towed trailer) and the Crusader AA MkI loaded with 160. The regular towed systems give you 300 rounds. After some internal discussion we decided for the initial deployment of these vehicles to give both SPAA's more than they historically carried on the vehicle, but less than the towed units to 1) help the towed units retain their usefulness, and 2) make the SPAA's more dependent on other player support to keep you shooting in place without having to go for back for ammo, which has the added benefit of making it a little more difficult to camp AB's for extended periods of time by oneself.

We'll see how things work out and adjust as necessary.     

Rgr that..  makes no difference to me, but as I stated above mb you should keep the artwork for the flak28 and make it a bofors... then do another variant with the flak37 mb one with the dual barrels? It seems a shame to drop the model as it is. 

[delems]

*** you should keep the artwork for the flak28 and make it a bofors

Germans didn't use the bofors on the Kfz 7 halftrack; at least not officially.  So it really makes no sense to have that; not that historical.

We should have 2 versions of the Kfz 7/2, the Flak 36 and the Flak 43; modeled with the proper artwork imo. (same model for both prolly fine, just change ROF)

And maybe fudge a third version (the 7/2 Flak 18) for FPA - or just give them Flak 36 when Flak 43 makes it's entrance in tier 3.  Hmm, says production ended in 1936, so prolly don't need a Flak 18 model - wasn't many built and already replaced by Flak 36 well before 1939.

 

The other official Kfz 7 variant was the 7/1 with the Flakverling - 4x Flak 38 20mm.

Unofficially, they also put the single mount Flak 38 (maybe Flak 30?) 20mm on it too.  Though the single mount was officially on the Sd Kfz 10/4 and 10/5; but we don't have Kfz 10 in game yet.

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by delems

[HATCH]

I'm not really following with the "dropping the model" statement? The Germans did use the bofors, but from what I can tell in the Wehrmacht, primarily as towed or fixed positions. There is much more documentation of use in the Kriegsmarine. I have not found ANY documentation showing their employment on SPAA platforms. Just to end the confusion with this one, I went ahead and built the new cannon (I was already building the BK3.7 version for the Ju87G-2) and Scotsman has provided a Flak36 3d model to convert or use as a template to replace the bofors art on the SdKfz 7 as they can fit it in. There are no plans to lose the towed axis bofors, but when the new art is done, there is nothing really preventing us from rolling out a towed Flak36.

[Merlin51]

41 minutes ago, stankyus said:

It seems a shame to drop the model as it is

Because the Germans never, at least officially in a production sense, fielded a SPAA based on a bofors.

They did make lots of ad-hoc stuff out of necessity, but we have never had those as game items.
No consistent standards to build them from might be one problem
 

[stankyus]

1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

Because the Germans never, at least officially in a production sense, fielded a SPAA based on a bofors.

They did make lots of ad-hoc stuff out of necessity, but we have never had those as game items.
No consistent standards to build them from might be one problem
 

That's really too bad, I was hoping for the possibility for more stuff.