SPAA cmdr KIA bug.

[delems]

Bug, SPAA gets a KIA against it when the commander dies.

It should only be when the gunner dies, and maybe driver?  Not commander.

Tanks don't KIA when their commander dies?  How come SPAA does?

SPAA should not have a KIA against it if just their commander dies.

 

[blkfalcon]

Does for the guns, so why not the spaa?

[delems]

Because it is a vehicle.

And, I'm totally against guns dying when the commander gets killed too btw.

Gun should only have KIA recorded against it if the gunner dies, not the commander imo.

This is actually a bug too imo.  Seems to me some of the allied guns fire just fine with cmdr dead, while axis guns stop working if cmdr dead, even though gunner still alive.

KIA should only go to drivers and gunners; anything with commander kill should not be KIA.

We should try and be consistent with how things work.

 

Regarding SPAA_ only reason I say driver kill shouldn't count as KIA - is because the axis driver is 100x easier to kill than the allied driver; hence, for SPAA only, I would register a kill against it only if the gunner was killed, not cmdr or driver.  Again, this special case because the allied driver can't be shot like the axis driver can be.

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by delems

[Blkhwk8]

Actually it  is considered a gun as listed under aaa and atg. It also shows as inf ews like other AAA and atgs

[OLDZEKE]

Tanks can still continue to drive, shoot, rtb with a dead  commander. Dead commander on spa means you can't deploy the gun and shoot, or if already deployed cant undeploy and move/rtb.

[delems]

*** Tanks can still continue to drive, shoot, rtb with a dead  commander. Dead commander on spa means you can't deploy the gun and shoot, or if already deployed cant undeploy and move/rtb.

I know that, a dead cmdr or driver on SPAA renders it mostly useless; but not entirely - gunner can still fire if deployed.

And that is not the point.

The point is, if a SPAA loses his cmdr or driver, that shouldn't be a KIA against the unit; only if the gunner dies should the SPAA be KIAd.

 

Sure, losing your cmdr or driver mostly likely takes you off the battlefield (RTB, RES, MIA), but it should not be a KIA - that is my point.

When I lose my cmdr or driver, I basically am removed from the field; but it should not be a KIA; that should be reserved for gunner kill.

 

And again, driver not being a KIA is an exception to the rule because the axis driver is easily killed while the allied driver is not.

 

[delems]

*** Actually it  is considered a gun as listed under aaa and atg. It also shows as inf ews like other AAA and atgs

I can consider my cup a bowl, put my cereal in, pour in the milk and eat it just fine.

That doesn't change the fact that the cup is not a bowl.. it is still a cup.

 

Sure, they may call it a gun and classify it as one, but it is a vehicle, it has a motor, wheels etc. What does SP in SPAA stand for?

And I can understand why they put it in the gun section, but it is still a vehicle.

 

And as I mentioned, I'd change guns too, only gunner kill gives KIA credit.  A cmdr kill should not disable the gunner from firing (like it does on axis), or be a kill against the unit.

Again, sure, the gun is probably going to be removed from battlefield with RTB, RES or MIA - I'm just saying it shouldn't be a KIA; that should only be reserved for gunner kill.

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by delems

[OLDZEKE]

Anything that renders a unit non returnable is a kill. RTB is a scoring thing, you can see rtb in a mission if you die in the ab. 

[Merlin51]

6 minutes ago, delems said:

while axis guns stop working if cmdr dead, even though gunner still alive.

which gun?
Bofors, commander dead, gunner shoots
Flak 30, executed commander, gunner shoots
Fak 37, commander hit in head, gunner still shoots
Can not undeploy any of them, lol the SPAA is stuck to the ground at that point but.

Any trick to reproducing? closest i could get was a put a 2pdr round through the commander and into the gun's breech and it stopped firing, but that is kind of expected?

 

[delems]

*** Anything that renders a unit non returnable is a kill. 

So, if my SPAA cmdr dies while not deployed, that is not a kill?  As I can still turn around and return.

But, if my SPAA cmdr dies while deployed, that is a kill?  Since I can't undeploy and return?

 

It was the Flak 30, hmm, I suppose the gun could have been disabled with the shot that killed my cmdr?

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by delems

[OLDZEKE]

19 minutes ago, delems said:

*** Anything that renders a unit non returnable is a kill. 

So, if my SPAA cmdr dies while not deployed, that is not a kill?  As I can still turn around and return.

But, if my SPAA cmdr dies while deployed, that is a kill?  Since I can't undeploy and return?

 

It was the Flak 30, hmm, I suppose the gun could have been disabled with the shot that killed my cmdr?

 

No because without being deployed it's not of any use. You can get a kill on a tank by breaking both tracks, killing the driver, killing the engine. But the gunner still works. It's still scored dead. A crit is a crit.

 

[Merlin51]

1 hour ago, OldZeke said:

Anything that renders a unit non returnable is a kill. RTB is a scoring thing, you can see rtb in a mission if you die in the ab. 

I think what delems might be saying is

If he drives out the AB and i pop his commander in the head and Delems turns around and drives back to the AB and despawns, the status reads KIA
Where on a tank, it would read RTB.

Which yes thats a kill on the tank and a score for the killer but the tank gets its points for coming home and i guess faster resupply?

[delems]

I see what zeke is saying.

They award a KIA for anything that makes the unit no longer functional.

I just think that is way to 'easy' when it comes to axis SPAA with an exposed driver, cmdr and gunner.

But I understand now.

 

It is a fundamental design call, they have any crew dying that stops the unit from working as a KIA.

Whereas, I would say only a gunner kill is KIA - everything else is just a dead crewman, but not KIA registered.

 

Leads to a lot more frustration when a simple plink gives you KIA, verses a plink and you having to despawn - but not KIA, you can come back.

As is, KIAs are awarded easily, I'd just relax it some; so KIAs are harder to get, and give the vulnerable units a bit more chance at surviving - (though - still have to get back to position).

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by delems

[OLDZEKE]

You can rtb and be kia. Yea it needs better feed back I guess.

RTB in the despawn prompt means you are in range to immediately return your unit back into supply, if it also has not received a critical damage.

If no critical damage has been awarded then you will also see in green chat "unit (flak30/ca mle 1938 etc) reserved such and so spawn".

RES in the despawn prompt means you are in range to retun your unit back into supply with a 15 minute penalty applied.

MIA is a yet longer penalty.

 

[OLDZEKE]

It's not red/blue. Axis driver is exposed, Axis Spaa has faster rate of fire. 

They are each unique.

M10 is the only open top unit ingame that planes and inf can kill from above (inf can shoot from buildings into the driver and gunners.

Axis have no armor units similarly vulernable.