Fixing bomb penetration, and Sunday event

[Cornered Rats]

Today we'll be talking about rolling back the HE "Penetration Constant" portion of our recent audit, which will revert changes specifically how bombs are impacting hard targets (vehicles specifically). We'd also like to place a rally call for troops to show up online and surge the virtual battlefield by logging in at 10AM Server Time (US Central) on this Sunday, September 9th. Remember, all veteran soldiers have a FREE Rifleman account and are eligible to join even if their premium subscription is currently inactive. This is a great time for all to join up and play - set a reminder and let your squad mates know!

View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com

[GrAnit]

Link is nor working for me.

Edited September 7, 2018 by GrAnit

[XOOM]

4 hours ago, GrAnit said:

Link is nor working for me.

Should be fine now, we had a weird website outage shortly after that article was published. We've since resolved things and updated the server.

[Mosizlak]

Really sad. 

You make all this effort to go the more historic route and then you roll it back because of the whine brigade.  All the effort Scottman put into the audit thrown out the window because guys like rebel flooded the forums with their tears.  

Can't wait for the coming LMG nerf because of the whine brigade...

 

[Blkhwk8]

3 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Really sad. 

You make all this effort to go the more historic route and then you roll it back because of the whine brigade.  All the effort Scottman put into the audit thrown out the window because guys like rebel flooded the forums with their tears.  

Can't wait for the coming LMG nerf because of the whine brigade...

 

No there is a bug in the penetration code which we have been trying to nail down since its release. We decided that this will take much longer to issolate so we are just changing the penetration damage nothing more. Their efforts are still being used. 

[Mosizlak]

1 minute ago, BLKHWK8 said:

No there is a bug in the penetration code which we have been trying to nail down since its release. We decided that this will take much longer to issolate so we are just changing the penetration damage nothing more. Their efforts are still being used. 

So now it's a "bug" and not "rolling back the HE penetration constant of our recent audit". 

You guys should get your stories on the same page before you announce this stuff lol

[Mosizlak]

6 minutes ago, BLKHWK8 said:

No there is a bug in the penetration code which we have been trying to nail down since its release. We decided that this will take much longer to issolate so we are just changing the penetration damage nothing more. Their efforts are still being used. 

From the announcement: 

" CRS has been carefully examining player feedback in and out of the game, and we've made the decision to roll back the changes which effect how bombs impact (penetrate) armor. This means that bombs will become viable again towards blowing up tanks and all other vehicles to their previous standards.  "

That doesn't sound remotely like "hunting down a bug". 

That specifically says EXAMINING PLAYER FEEDBACK relating to the bomb's performance...

[njord88]

8 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

From the announcement: 

" CRS has been carefully examining player feedback in and out of the game, and we've made the decision to roll back the changes which effect how bombs impact (penetrate) armor. This means that bombs will become viable again towards blowing up tanks and all other vehicles to their previous standards.  "

That doesn't sound remotely like "hunting down a bug". 

That specifically says EXAMINING PLAYER FEEDBACK relating to the bomb's performance...

Player feedback is Rebel and 4wing!   

Most vets on axis side are getting realy pissed off with this Alied BIAS!  

PS: is this because some axis players were camping a AF with DD?   

[vanapo]

Quote

CRS has been carefully examining player feedback in and out of the game, and we've made the decision to roll back the changes which effect how bombs impact (penetrate) armor. 

Regarding the mentioned "bias" I have to say: I heard the same complaint about the bombs on the axis side aswell. So I wouldn't say it was only 4wing that tooted this horn. The most prominent clomplainers where of course.

However, the biggest complaint about the bombs after the audit, especially when you look at the forums, is the lack of kill potential against soft targets. And actually a lot of people spoke out that it's a step in the right direction if HE bombs don't kill heavy tanks anymore (especially not with ease). Which I think myself is quite evident if you look at some sources and ask some smart people. Scotsman said this himself. I guess the difference is that people who like these changes stopped talking about it and people who were mad about it just kept complaining and complaing all over the hangar forum.

So I really hope this is just a placeholder because you can't get to where we all want to go as fast as intended and you discovered other malfunctions (like with DDs) that made this necessary and I hope it was not only the immunity of tiger tanks to tiny 120kg bombs............. (at some point you pay the price for bringing 8 small bombs instead of 4 bigger ones - but I guess you don't if both have the exact same armor penetration performance).

Edited September 8, 2018 by vanapo

[brotheral]

I find this whole roll-back double speak issue very frustrating. For a long time, there's been issues with this game which we all came to realize was just crap we had to deal with. Over the last few years, players donated decent sums of money to help move it into modern times and save it from the outdated video game dustbin... All players loyal to one side or the other, have gripes and complaints. The audits were long overdue and much anticipated. To roll back any of them is beyond a slap in the face. I havent played in over a month because of some of the more recent "bugs", especially the no hit, no kill bug, where enemy players take dozens of direct hits, to no effect....  DB7s/Havocs rain absolute hell on Axis vehicle spawns, killing everything in their path, despite diving at G-speeds that should rip off their wings and knock out their pilots.... and allied fighters that can take all kinds of punishment and kill shots to the cockpit, engine, and fuselage, yet still fly as if they were A10's lined with the titanium bathtub armor. I dont even know how many times I shot up a damn fighter, saw its prop bent to hell, then watch it pull up and fly away. Now we see the implementation of the HE audit for bombs was too much for some to handle... They whine because they are losing their very high K/Ds to a more level playing field... The game has bugs, always has, always will, but dont make things worse by taking away the very things CRS has promised... 

[Blkhwk8]

This is not rolling back the full audit. It is a small piece of it that was not having the correct result within the overall audit.

It effects both sides. 

It always amazes me about how quickly people gripe about changes, before they are even implemented in the live server.

Of course we all know if we fixed every single thing with in the game there would still be something for the naysayers.

This has everything to do with ovrrall game play. 

[ZEBBEEE]

Event is at 4PM GMT 

[krazydog]

There might be some conflict of intetests:

NFL week 1 is also on Sunday.

[GrAnit]

15 hours ago, BLKHWK8 said:

This is not rolling back the full audit. It is a small piece of it that was not having the correct result within the overall audit.

It effects both sides. 

It always amazes me about how quickly people gripe about changes, before they are even implemented in the live server.

Of course we all know if we fixed every single thing with in the game there would still be something for the naysayers.

This has everything to do with ovrrall game play. 

This is good to hear as it was not made very clear in the announcement.  It would have also been helpful to provide, at the same time, an update on the HE/KE/infantry penetration  fix in conjunction with this change.  That is a huge deal and the community has not heard anything on this for a while.

Edited September 8, 2018 by GrAnit

[Rws]

On my way back from the Bahamas. Hope to be to be back in the game on Sunday. Trying it out will make up my mind for me.

[PITTPETE]

If only some of you guys knew what was involved in testing and making sure things are performing the way we want....

[ZEBBEEE]

1 hour ago, Pittpete said:

If only some of you guys knew what was involved in testing and making sure things are performing the way we want....

Would be Nice to have a video and mitch's explanations about how the development cycle works at CRS.

[GrAnit]

2 hours ago, Pittpete said:

If only some of you guys knew what was involved in testing and making sure things are performing the way we want....

I understand the problems of updating and fixing legacy spaghetti code.  But periodic updates on big developments would be helpful to the community.

[delems]

If the issue effects both sides equally, how come just don't leave it in and deal with it, until the proper fix can be found?

Rolling this back will help one side far more than the other, won't it?
 

Now we're spending time going backwards instead of moving forward it seems.

 

[jwilly]

The armor penetration of a thin case instant fuzed bomb of course fundamentally is zero. There might be blast damage, but not after armor penetration.

Quote

 

This means that bombs will become viable again towards blowing up tanks and all other vehicles to their previous standards.  

 

The "tanks" part of this obviously is wholly unrealistic.

If the marketing thrust of the rollback is the above, Mo's first post is correct, and the game's evolution toward realism is at an end.

My understanding is that the core problem was that bombs no longer could penetrate destroyers. That's not a problem for the modeled bombs...their performance has been more realistic since the Scotsman-originated changes. The DD problem rather is that the DD has a bad damage model.

I'd be more optimistic if CRS would tell us that bombs will revert to realistic performance as soon as the DD damage model is fixed so that the current bombs do only superstructure damage.

If CRS wants players to have the option of dropping heavy case, delay fuzed bombs, they should add plane-model-copies to the spawnlists with that armament instead of GP bombs.

[rotsechs]

12 hours ago, jwilly said:

The armor penetration of a thin case instant fuzed bomb of course fundamentally is zero. There might be blast damage, but not after armor penetration.

The "tanks" part of this obviously is wholly unrealistic.

If the marketing thrust of the rollback is the above, Mo's first post is correct, and the game's evolution toward realism is at an end.

My understanding is that the core problem was that bombs no longer could penetrate destroyers. That's not a problem for the modeled bombs...their performance has been more realistic since the Scotsman-originated changes. The DD problem rather is that the DD has a bad damage model.

I'd be more optimistic if CRS would tell us that bombs will revert to realistic performance as soon as the DD damage model is fixed so that the current bombs do only superstructure damage.

If CRS wants players to have the option of dropping heavy case, delay fuzed bombs, they should add plane-model-copies to the spawnlists with that armament instead of GP bombs.

Bingo. Nail. Hit. On. Head. 

17 hours ago, delems said:

If the issue effects both sides equally, how come just don't leave it in and deal with it, until the proper fix can be found?

Exactly what I thought. 

 

[OLDZEKE]

This is not even a actual reversion but rather a slight partial change of one specific part of the HE audit. And then only a incremental change rather than reverting to the value before the audit.

And as has been stated it's only until the actual bit that's causing the issue can be fixed.

 

[XOOM]

Hey everyone,

I just want to make sure you all saw the updates to the main page article and my forum post surrounding this topic:

I'm going to lock this thread as I've explain everything in the other one. As I mentioned we'll keep you all posted.