MS work around resupply

[jamieg]

I have found a way to resupply from an MS to a friendly towns garrison.

 

drive ms from back line town to friendly town. Set ms at a cp. spawn in WARP to cp despawn cancel reservation. Cancel request. Supply goes into home garrison. 

 

Please fix

[aismov]

Nice catch!

[Scking]

will take a look at that.. Not sure if there is much we can do about that without limiting “warping” and not sure we want to go down that road.. 

[jamieg]

Unfortunately if that’s the case it’ll be very easy to transfer supplies 

[kgarner]

I kinda like it........ why not have a reasonable ability to resupply infantry...... no one will ever resupply inf if you have to move from 1 town to another..... this still takes time and effort..... but u can actually get some decent reward for your work.  I think this is actually a good thing

[Kilemall]

Unfortunately I don't seem  to be able to locate the graphic, but there was an earlier version of this that occurred and Bertrix was loaded with several hundred of everything.  Some did a photoshop of a depot with a French soldier labelled Bilton who was fighting several dozen German soldiers at the same time, and it was labelled The Bertrix in The Matrix fonts.

 

Let's not abuse this, hmmmm?  Else CRS has to take away some candy.

[kgarner]

the only way i see it getting out of control would be if say twerp s dumbed all its inf into twerp c every 12 hours..... It would still take a really long time to accomplish really astonishing resupply numbers...... something I doubt the current player base could/would/or would even have a desire to do.

[kgarner]

plus with 100% max out.... it's kind of insignificant 

[Kilemall]

Just now, kgarner said:

the only way i see it getting out of control would be if say twerp s dumbed all its inf into twerp c every 12 hours..... It would still take a really long time to accomplish really astonishing resupply numbers...... something I doubt the current player base could/would/or would even have a desire to do.

Heh, quickly forwarding 50 MGs would change the tide of battle, offense or defense.  That could be done by 2 people in 30 minutes, not counting the drive.

 

I know cause I did that sort of thing back in the day before ToEs, only took 1-3 players to fix up a list.  Before that there was actually flying supply in with the planes.

 

Ya, all that squawking about interdiction and people are working out teleporting supply- and without even the 'realism' of the specific linking depot being necessary.

 

Poor poor Rats- no patch survives contact with the playerbase intact.

[Kilemall]

3 minutes ago, kgarner said:

plus with 100% max out.... it's kind of insignificant 

Uh huh.

SUUURE having 30 engineers instead of 15 is insignificant.

And, overpop advantage again.

[kgarner]

30 engie is insignificant compared to 400 sherms 

[delems]

The attacker needs the resupply ability.

Far far easier for the defender to run a dMS up to his town to provide supply.

Jam, you said yourself - there were MS from THREE different towns to Stenay to hold it - why should defender be allowed 3 dMS but not allow the attacker 1 dMS to try and supply his town?

And for the record, that dMS was actually there cause axis town was out of supply and I thought allied were going to counter - it wasn't to supply the attack; but rather to have something to defend with.  I was looking ahead.  You have no idea how badly I wanted the ability to disable the MS w/o removing it... but, of course we can't.  Mission leaders have no control over their missions

Edited April 19, 2019 by delems

[aismov]

Nope FMS resupply is gamey as all hell and there is a big reason why CRS eliminated (or at least tried to) when they designed TBS. Needs to be fixed pronto.

 

Going to be completely silly when more players figure this out (and they will) when it takes ~15 seconds to resupply one infantry (depending on timers). Get 5 guys together and they can resupply/overstock 80-100 infantry in a town in under 5 minutes. LOL WTF???

 

EDIT: If anything it looks like the dFMS from a backline town to a frontline town should be looked at since you can effectively warp supply in directly to a friendly controlled CP.

Edited April 19, 2019 by aismov

[delems]

Meanwhile the defender can spawn 200 in the same 5 minutes... what is your point?

[aismov]

12 minutes ago, delems said:

Meanwhile the defender can spawn 200 in the same 5 minutes... what is your point?

The point is that creating loopholes/exploits that effectively give you unlimited supply via warping in a system that was designed specifically to promote 1) attrition and 2) player-driven interdiction of other player-driver resupply efforts turns the whole thing into a farce. It effectively eliminates a whole category of something else a player can do other than grabbing a SMG and rushing a bunker or CP.

One of the biggest issues (IMHO) when CRS 1.0 went to the brigade system is that it turned WWIIOL into nothing more than a gigantic bunker rushing simulator. None of the other things we used to do mattered anymore because it was only a question of getting more bodies into the bunker than the other side irrespective of losses or even a rational approach to battles. And as is evidence by the slow demise of squads and players, the game was worse off for it.

Game design requires that you have a big tent approach and cater to numerous different playstyles. For years WWIIOL effectively had only 1: spawn infantry and rush the bunker. This improved with PPOs and is set to get better with 1.36 and attrition. And now we are set to take a step back because someone found a clever loophole that effectively nukes the entire attrition/supply paradigm. Look, I understand that as people in HC we want to find the fastest, most effective way to capture. But what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

 

EDIT: I'll go out an say it. The dFMS from a backline town being set up outside of a frontline town should be eliminated. Magically warping 200+ infantry over 10 km of open terrain that may be patrolled by enemy planes or scout cars is the exact antithesis of player-interdictable supply.

Edited April 19, 2019 by aismov

[delems]

So, you don't mind the defender setting a dMS (from backline town) to save their town... but the attacker can do nothing but walk 10km to supply theirs ?

Just trying to make sure I understand here.

Or, are you saying all dMS to towns should be eliminated? (attacker and defender)

Edited April 19, 2019 by delems

[aismov]

3 hours ago, delems said:

Or, are you saying all dMS to towns should be eliminated? (attacker and defender)

The second part. The defender shouldn't be able to drive a dFMS in from a backline town and warp infantry across instantaneously. Defeats the whole purpose of attrition and interdiction. To me thats the same as the attacker bringing in a FMS from a backline town to aid in the attack and warping in non-interdictable supply.

[Augetout]

I don't mind the idea of moving troops from a backline town, but the warping thing...  Don't like it.

[Kilemall]

If you are for infantry warp resupply, you should be for full ToEs/brigades.

[Kilemall]

12 hours ago, aismov said:

One of the biggest issues (IMHO) when CRS 1.0 went to the brigade system is that it turned WWIIOL into nothing more than a gigantic bunker rushing simulator. None of the other things we used to do mattered anymore because it was only a question of getting more bodies into the bunker than the other side irrespective of losses or even a rational approach to battles. And as is evidence by the slow demise of squads and players, the game was worse off for it.

Game design requires that you have a big tent approach and cater to numerous different playstyles. For years WWIIOL effectively had only 1: spawn infantry and rush the bunker. This improved with PPOs and is set to get better with 1.36 and attrition. And now we are set to take a step back because someone found a clever loophole that effectively nukes the entire attrition/supply paradigm. Look, I understand that as people in HC we want to find the fastest, most effective way to capture. But what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

 

I think we are both on the side of the angels as far as this warp thing goes, but I highly disagree with your characterization of the brigade system itself making bunker rushes the sine qua non of the game.  Squawking players that couldn't stand the idea that they would be out of supply in a region for hours caused spawnlists and numbers of brigades bumped up to the point of caricature.

 

In the first few years of ToEs, it was AHC policy and executed battle plan to not go after towns, but go after divisions.  We would intentionally beat an entire division to death over the course of several hours because it was exposed and had towns that could be defended, and AHC salivated at the prospect of the Axis stacking units in a town- meant dinner was served and an easier time of destroy the division/cap everything around it.

 

What happened was people cried about 'no can defend', Rats beefed up spawnlists, then ultimately added army brigades from the original 26 to 32 I think mostly because of coding out MOIC mismatches, then added another division to 36 brigades partly for BEF and partly for creating more edge action.  The result of not backing off individual spawnlist count AND stuffing the map with brigades coupled with more risk leaving the middle of the map thin and no advantage/all risk on the flanks was a pile of brigades available to stuff any threat in the center.

 

THAT made the bunker bounce the only way to win, ninja or supercamp.

 

I submit the same thing can happen with TBS, particularly if a combination of fast resupply tickets and high enough spawnlists and easy warp resupply combines to create the same basic conditions of no attrition.  It will be player whining that 'I wants my Tiger/Firefly/RPAT/MGs/Engineer' and CRS responding that can recreate the same conditions.

 

Any particular system doesn't make for clogged capture- player whining for dealing with consequences of loss does.

[gtanner]

Warping seems like a buggy exploit to begin with, though an exploit that everyone uses. This particular issue trivialises supply runs. 

I can't see a reason why warping still exists in the first place. In my opinion it should be fixed unless they are plans to make every CP you capture a spawnable, it's "features" like this that are near impossible to explain to new players.

Edited April 19, 2019 by gtanner

[kazee]

30 minutes ago, gtanner said:

Warping seems like a buggy exploit to begin with, though an exploit that everyone uses. This particular issue trivialises supply runs. 

I can't see a reason why warping still exists in the first place. In my opinion it should be fixed unless they are plans to make every CP you capture a spawnable, it's "features" like this that are near impossible to explain to new players.

Agree 100%, it should just be removed outright, very gamey and defeats the whole purpose on trying to cap a spawn cp in enemy town if u can warp to any cp. Never liked it and feel kind of shameful and dirty after doing in on an attack from a fms.

But this issue/bug the original poster has described is not good, not good at all. and also defeats the purpose of attrition as Aismov described 

9 hours ago, augetout said:

I don't mind the idea of moving troops from a backline town, but the warping thing...  Don't like it.

agree 100% 

Here is a good example:

Lier-Aarschot-Diest-Paal

Lier & Aars allied towns, Diest & Paal axis towns

Axis AO Aars from Diest, with this bug/warp issue, allied can bring a fms from Lier to resupply inf but axis can only attack and use fms from Diest...they can NOT use a fms from Paal because Paal and Aars do not link, so they fms will not set near Aars. Thus you are making Aars a 2 ab town and Diest still remains a one ab town to draw attacking supply. The chances of Diest capping Aars drops significantly do to this warp issue

Its being exploited now and kind of makes this whole "mini-campaign" worthless imho. Now I know people are doing this and  I was wondering the past 48 hours why certain supply was still around after attacking certain towns over 12 hour periods. 

 

 

[delems]

There is nothing new here, the defender has always been able to bring an MS in from a backline town.

That is not a bug or 'warp issue'.

 

The issue is, a 1 AB town attacking a 1 AB town now becomes 1 vrs 2; with the support of dMS from backline defender town.

But, again, nothing new; we've been doing that for years, I've run 100s of backline MS to frontline town.

 

The difference is, now the attacker has no way to add supply, where before the attacker could move a flag in.

 

 

Regarding completely removing warping, ikes, scary thought - I use it so much; would completely change game play imo.

Question is, for the better or not?

Might be interesting to try in intermission if there was an easy 'on/off' switch for warping.

[Kilemall]

I fail to see how the warping resupply method would not work for attackers.

 

And yes everyone has run rescue DFMS for DOs for years, the difference is they got stopped from resupping so anything spawned from that DFMS was earned player time and into battle, not loading up to hold out another hour or three.  And with the flags you knew which town got uncovered to boost the active DO and could shift the AO to that now weakened town and have a window to punish.  Not so with sneakwarp supply.

 

Now then I argued for ToEs to allow for supply rescue for defenders, what I didn't advocate was large spawnlists everywhere or fast trickle timers.  This warp thing can end up being worse then people's so-called JWBS issues.

[delems]

Also, just though of something.

Even with the backline MS / warping / resupply.

It is still way better than before.

First, players have to do the work ... not some two second HC move order.   Players must drive, set MS and actually spawn.

Second, you can kill the backline MS, you can't undo the flag move.

So, even if we call this a 'bug' (I don't think it is at all), it is WAY better than warping flags.

 

*** This warp thing can end up being worse then people's so-called JWBS issues.

Disagree, players have to do it; and it takes a lot of time.  JWBS was two seconds and instant everything in town.

Also, backline MS brings no armor...

Edited April 19, 2019 by delems