BF 109 flight characteristics

[sk3tchi]

The 109 used to be a floppy mess. Now it's perfectly stable, doing barrel rolls and strafing groundies even with half a tail. This can't be accurate can it?

 

[derfflingr]

It's not just the 109. Some of the Allied rides appear to take a lot of damage and keep right on flying as if nothing wrong.

[TR6AL]

I don't think the pilot of the damaged planes would agree . The external representaion of damage is not as acurate 3rd person .

[sk3tchi]

I'm sure it's not just the 109 but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. I've seen this many times now from the ground and air.

You should notice roll stutters to a specific side as he's pulling back on the stick after strafing, but there's nothing. You should need to use coordinated roll and yaw while using any pitch with this type of damage.  While he may not be able to roll or pitch as fast, it still certainly looks too smooth for the damage sustained. Maybe he trimmed completely one way or another to help but it seems hokey that he's still able to strafe ground targets with such ease.

I think it's something that should be looked at for all aircraft

 

[bus0]

109's guns are taking out Matty engine's and killing crew, closed hatch...

that needs to be fixed and/or looked into...

[vanapo]

46 minutes ago, bus0 said:

109's guns are taking out Matty engine's and killing crew, closed hatch...

that needs to be fixed and/or looked into...

That's how it should be. Matilda has a 20mm top armor plate over the engine and crew compartment - and only 18mm on top of the turret. That should be penned by the 109f2's 15mm AP rounds with ease if it's coming in with an angle of more than 60°

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_151_cannon

Only the early french tanks like the char and the somua have somewhat decent top armor.

Edited July 7, 2019 by vanapo

[TR6AL]

Sk3tchi .. The view you get from damage 3rd person isn't exactly what the damage is . The model only has a few visual damage states and just because you see 1/2 the tail missing doesn't mean that's what is correct . It could just be a small part got hit .  If the visual damage model only has 4 different visuals (art images) , you won't get anything in between.  (I'm just using the number 4 as reference as I don't know actual number )

If you see a wing missing , then the damage might be close but not exactly that . It could still have most of it there and still able to fly .

[tater]

4 hours ago, vanapo said:

That's how it should be. Matilda has a 20mm top armor plate over the engine and crew compartment - and only 18mm on top of the turret. That should be penned by the 109f2's 15mm AP rounds with ease if it's coming in with an angle of more than 60°

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_151_cannon

Only the early french tanks like the char and the somua have somewhat decent top armor.

The fact that we know this, and have a game world where this sort of thing can be tested quickly is part of the reason why lethality is so high in game. No fear of death, access to the physics, why not strafe tanks with fighters? In the real world, strafing, particularly in a steep dive, seems like a pretty unlikely activity for a fighter

 

[OLDZEKE]

mg151 will do 18mm low deflection(in case of top armor a near vertical down shot) out to around 315m. So to get through matty top armor you need fire in a near vertical dive when within....adding aircraft speed to the round... best guess maybe 330m? You then need hit something important inside the tank with the spall or with that round that pretty much slowed to a crawl. Doable? Yea should be. Reliably repeatable? Doubtful.

 

[GrAnit]

On 7/5/2019 at 9:38 AM, tr6al said:

I don't think the pilot of the damaged planes would agree . The external representaion of damage is not as acurate 3rd person .

Lol!  Have you ever flown in this game with a wing blown off?

[sajuk]

Please dont use Wiki guys.

 

Here some real Information from "Rechlin".  The Image in this tread is a original.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php/4127-Luftwaffe-Cannons-amp-Machineguns/page4

 

So we can see the following thinks.

 

Nr. 1

The Mg-151/15mm can penetrante 25mm at 100m with his standart AP rounds.

 

Nr.2

With APC near 45mm at 100m.

 

Nr.3

The 18mm in wiki is how trump would say Fake news.

 

Nobody fly more the109 F2 in the last years then me, and in some camp i have kill over 150 Tanks.

Possible in real???  Of course yes.

 

In history only the 109 F2 were later additionally upgrade from the LW with rockets for ground attackts.

It was no secret that the LW selected ONLY the 109 F2 for that extrem very rare upgrade. The test center “Rechlin“ knows about his amazing penetration possibilities. The main problem on the real battlefield was that the pilots not know if he kill the tank with his mg151/15 bullets or not. Because the Mg 151-15 make only extrem small holes in the tank. No real chance for a pilot to see if the tank is destroy or nor. For using on a real battelfield this is really bad, but for a PC game its fine.  (Same that french tanks have no radio set) 

 

Know your Information about it is possible to kill Mattys.

 

Go to War Thunder and go to the virtual garage. Spwan the Matty and look about his armor everywhere.

We can see only 18mm on the top of the Turret. 

(Easy kill for the 151/15 in real)  Ingame Commander and Gunner kills are possible

 

Next thing

Near 80% of the Top of the matty have only 20mm Armor. (again easy work for the Mg 151/15)

 

In this part you all can say what you want, but Hatch make it 100% realistic.

 

[OLDZEKE]

1 hour ago, GrAnit said:

Lol!  Have you ever flown in this game with a wing blown off?

There is only 1 visual damage state for wings, on or blown off, even if in actuality it's only the wing tip gone it still removes the wing (best as I know).

[sajuk]

Who not know about "Rechlin"

 

All German militäry guns where testet at Rechlin among scientific cretins.

The results are identical to subsequent tests from today's time, of example of the 88 from the tiger.

These are still used today as a scientific basis.

 

 

[vanapo]

3 hours ago, GrAnit said:

Lol!  Have you ever flown in this game with a wing blown off?

 

[drkmouse]

LOL that was sweet

 

[sk3tchi]

So how do we fix this?

can we increase the damage threshold before this type of tail damage is visualized?

or can we add more specific damage models?

Edited July 15, 2019 by sk3tchi