2 planes collide one keeps flying

[Dre21]

Can this be fixed ? It's getting real old when 2 of them go head to head and one slams into the other and one goes Boom and the other keeps going.  

 

[jwilly]

That's the proper way for a client-managed PvP game like this to work. You see yourself colliding with where you see the opposing plane...but note that you see that opposing plane at a lagged location, because in a client-managed PvP game there's always a time delay between your action and other players' awareness of that action, or other players' actions and your awareness of those actions.

The other player (sometimes) sees himself pulling up just in time and missing the opposing plane (i.e. you)...which he sees not where you currently are, but at your lagged location. 

That's a poor text explanation. There's an excellent graphical explanation of why that's the case, posted years ago and many times since then. I'm away from my files at home so I can't repost it again, but someone here must have it.

[jwilly]

Here you go, from Hatch:

 

[bus0]

I call bull**** on that one, the RED 109 wouldn't SPIN OUT OF CONTROL IF HE DIDN'T TOUCH ANYTHING, unfortunately for HATCH his graphical explanation is full of manure. 

[Scking]

This has been a long standing argument.. Unfortunately if we changed this somehow so that both aircraft get effected, the people complaining right now that the other plane flew away, would then complain that THEY avoided the collision but still went out of control or blew up.

Unfortunately its going to go one way or the other and we are going to get complaints either way. Lose / Lose situation

[Dre21]

5 hours ago, SCKING said:

This has been a long standing argument.. Unfortunately if we changed this somehow so that both aircraft get effected, the people complaining right now that the other plane flew away, would then complain that THEY avoided the collision but still went out of control or blew up.

Unfortunately its going to go one way or the other and we are going to get complaints either way. Lose / Lose situation

I rather see both blow then always get the short end of the stick and I'm left hanging in the air while he flies away on the same damn path as I was on. 

 

[jwilly]

1 hour ago, dre21 said:

...while he flies away on the same damn path as I was on. 

He was on the same path as you from your perspective.

From your perspective, the two of you collided.

But from his perspective, you and he didn't collide. He maneuvered to miss you.

It's impossible because of the physics of a global-internet game, for you and he to have the same perspective.

His game necessarily has all units in different locations than your game does. That's fundamentally how a game like this has to work.

If your monitor and his monitor were side by side, a viewer would see your plane collide with his on your monitor, and his plane evade yours on his monitor.

Why should his experience be determined by how you see the interaction?

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by jwilly

[Elfin]

52 minutes ago, jwilly said:

 

Why should his experience be determined by how you see the interaction?

 

Because I bloody well pay for this game and I want to have my fun !!!!!

 

[bus0]

18 hours ago, SCKING said:

This has been a long standing argument.. Unfortunately if we changed this somehow so that both aircraft get effected, the people complaining right now that the other plane flew away, would then complain that THEY avoided the collision but still went out of control or blew up.

Unfortunately its going to go one way or the other and we are going to get complaints either way. Lose / Lose situation

Itty bitty 109(small, petite, not heavy) clips DB7(big one) and big one explodes = bad physics, manure on physics collision, perceptive comedy.

And I never complain about CRS, I always blame Rans.

weak kung-fu Scking.

 

[Kidd27]

43 minutes ago, bus0 said:

Itty bitty 109(small, petite, not heavy) clips DB7(big one) and big one explodes = bad physics, manure on physics collision, perceptive comedy.

And I never complain about CRS, I always blame Rans.

weak kung-fu Scking.

 

its good physics with bad latency. but mostly Rans

13 hours ago, dre21 said:

I rather see both blow then always get the short end of the stick and I'm left hanging in the air while he flies away on the same damn path as I was on. 

 

stop flying into them. The short end of the stick is determined by the pilot.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Kidd27

[Dre21]

12 hours ago, jwilly said:

He was on the same path as you from your perspective.

From your perspective, the two of you collided.

But from his perspective, you and he didn't collide. He maneuvered to miss you.

It's impossible because of the physics of a global-internet game, for you and he to have the same perspective.

His game necessarily has all units in different locations than your game does. That's fundamentally how a game like this has to work.

If your monitor and his monitor were side by side, a viewer would see your plane collide with his on your monitor, and his plane evade yours on his monitor.

Why should his experience be determined by how you see the interaction?

 

So he maneuvered to miss me and that explains why I go boom and he keeps flying ? Makes no sense . If he misses me I keep flying he keeps flying .

Either we collide and both die or we miss each other and we both keep flying . Otherwise the game picks a winner and looser and if it keeps happening to one player how long do you think he will stick with the game especially if it's a newer or new player?

I'm a Vet and it pisses me off to no end cause on my end it's 95% of the time where I explode and he keeps flying with no killer in my AAR . So it's not like he pumped me full of lead either.

Sorry tough pill to swallow the explanation you are giving me here.

[Kidd27]

1 hour ago, dre21 said:

So he maneuvered to miss me and that explains why I go boom and he keeps flying ? Makes no sense . If he misses me I keep flying he keeps flying .

Either we collide and both die or we miss each other and we both keep flying . Otherwise the game picks a winner and looser and if it keeps happening to one player how long do you think he will stick with the game especially if it's a newer or new player?

I'm a Vet and it pisses me off to no end cause on my end it's 95% of the time where I explode and he keeps flying with no killer in my AAR . So it's not like he pumped me full of lead either.

Sorry tough pill to swallow the explanation you are giving me here.

ya actually thats exactly it. He manuevered and missed, while YOU crashed.

You dont seem to understand there are 2 realities happening at the same time; his and yours; separated by how long it takes (latency) for computers to talk to each other.

Stop trying to cut it so close, the fact is that you puter takes the last information it had on your opponent location and applies your last input and calculates the result.

So you could penalize the "good" pilot that saw himeself miss, by having him explode after the message got back from the "bad" pilot that he colided, but thats wrong in more ways.

 

 

[DOC]

This issue has been wrestled with for a long time. If there has to be two realities (what you see and what they see being different) because of lag in communication between both computers (this has to exist) and this is not possible to eliminate (it isn't) then you have to have the possibility of two outcomes that also don't align. So you either kill the guy who saw the miss or you let one die and one go on unaffected. Until what happens is perfectly simultaneous on both ends (like real life is) you cannot make any other adjudication.

It's the old lesser of two evils situation.

What a pilot in the game can do to avoid this is, break sooner and don't push the "miss" so close that you are inside the lag envelope. If you break before you are inside the lag bubble you won't suffer this fate.