DD firing effects.

[delems]

Ok, some very weird behavior, just put some 800 HE (2 ships) into an eDD before he finally sunk, many at 2000m or less range.

Didn't even catch fire till around 600 HE or so.

Also, anytime got within around 1500m, all the shots would go through the eDD, not hit; or at least was no register of a hit visually.  Just watch round disappear into ship.

Finally, there was a hurricane in the kill list too

[delems]

Seems same thing with FMB now, about 300m away, fire HE and AP into side of eFMB at 30 deg angle maybe; shells just go right through, no effect.

[stankyus]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:58 PM, delems said:

Ok, some very weird behavior, just put some 800 HE (2 ships) into an eDD before he finally sunk, many at 2000m or less range.

Didn't even catch fire till around 600 HE or so.

Also, anytime got within around 1500m, all the shots would go through the eDD, not hit; or at least was no register of a hit visually.  Just watch round disappear into ship.

Finally, there was a hurricane in the kill list too

Weird... use the mini88 instead... ask Kempi LOL. He lost 2 DDs last map to the pak36... as in started his DD burning. Not hear say, I watched it happen. I was behind him shelling town.  I can confirm after patch some of my rounds where passing through the DDs. Had an encounter with a DD in a M10 or mb it was a S75 last map where my shots took out the front two turrets, but no hits where registering near the stacks or hull. Just the superstructure and gun emplacements/torpedo tubes only, focille and stern.  Frustrating as hell but not the rule because I had other missions where they where. I also have had from time to time in duals with other Fams where my 47mm was not impacting on the hull... but I think that was prior to the Patch.

[drkmouse]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:42 PM, delems said:

Seems same thing with FMB now, about 300m away, fire HE and AP into side of eFMB at 30 deg angle maybe; shells just go right through, no effect.

problem is allies  have  90% of the  inline  edd  towns so axis in a wourl dof hurt on thso towns... becuse of the bug,  edd need to go till fixed

[delems]

*** He lost 2 DDs last map to the pak36... 

Less than 1% chance of killing eDD with Pak 36; never seen it done, never even seen them taken out a gun on eDD.

But, suppose it could be possible as the 1% in stats says.

[delems]

Just put over 40 HE into side of eDD at 1000m - nothing, no kill, no flame; all stack area and water line.

Damage model is completed screwed up.

[McSlimm]

and no feedback on the hull or structure to indicate just how much damage you were doing?
a decal would show just how many shots, and how much damage each shot was doing.
if it comes out looking swiss cheese then there might be a problem with  boats

[jwilly]

This is the original damage model. Not sure if this is still current.

https://imgur.com/Xi6QP3U

[stankyus]

2 hours ago, delems said:

*** He lost 2 DDs last map to the pak36... 

Less than 1% chance of killing eDD with Pak 36; never seen it done, never even seen them taken out a gun on eDD.

But, suppose it could be possible as the 1% in stats says.

I have never lost one to a pak36, he managed to lose two at the same town during the same battle. I did not think it possible unless they took out all your guns and torpedoes.

[drkmouse]

1 hour ago, stankyus said:

I have never lost one to a pak36, he managed to lose two at the same town during the same battle. I did not think it possible unless they took out all your guns and torpedoes.

rember the ol despawn after   crit dmg and   person who killed you  is  on a dif unt  when you depawn ( the new unit gets the kill)

why   as opel i got kills on  planes LOL

[atgman]

Got kill with ATR on DD. Its in the forum.

Feedback was that there is/are point/s on DDs that are vulnerable, also to German 8mm ATR.

If that is the case, a PAK/ATG would have no trouble at all to kill a DD, if the guy know where to hit it.

(Of cause using AP)

Edited July 22, 2020 by atgman

[stankyus]

11 hours ago, drkmouse said:

rember the ol despawn after   crit dmg and   person who killed you  is  on a dif unt  when you depawn ( the new unit gets the kill)

why   as opel i got kills on  planes LOL

Nope, I watched it happen both times. I could not hit the pak36.  I could see him with my Captain but my mains could not see but a pixel of him from where he was.   I was at the Ports entrance, Kempi went into the port both times. This is not a OH NOES pak36 is uber thing though I dont think that should happen.  That would be like a mle34 sinking a DD for some perspective. That is very wonky considering what Delems experienced and what I experienced with far better guns.

[rabbit]

Back to the OP, I noticed something odd about the second day in.  Playtime and I unloaded hundreds of rounds into an edd near Veere and it lasted way longer than normal.  I wasn't keeping track of how many rounds but it shouldn't have taken as long to sink this destroyer.  We were both within 1km of him.  We both also noticed it seemed some of our rounds were going through him and not exploding on contact.  It was pretty odd so I don't know if there is some larger issue at work here but I think something is off.

[jwilly]

There are four ways to sink a real life vessel: start a fire that they cannot control, cause a warhead or propellant explosion of sufficient size to do catastropuc damage, create a hole below the waterline that results in water ingress they cannot control, or "break its back" via an upwelling explosion under its keel.

You can cause extensive topside damage to a vessel...damage or destroy its guns, torpedo tubes and other functional elements...without doing anything to sink that vessel, unless in the process you also start a fire the damage team cannot control--but that's not assured in the real world. 

I'm pretty sure WWIIOL destroyers work something like that, although simplified.

Real destroyers have very little "armor"...the hull is 12mm to 18mm mild steel plate, with other elements being thinner/lighter. That's equivalent to something like 6mm to 9mm of armor. So, it doesn't take much penetration capability to cause damage, depending on where you hit. I think the WWIIOL model functions along those lines.

Damage in-game is very simplified. Of course damage control is not modeled, except by implication. AFAIK zero damage is applied for hits that don't affect one of the defined damage objects. 

https://imgur.com/Xi6QP3U

In the real world, warships have enough vision and gun range that they fight at distances where shellfire arrives at plunging angles. With delayed fuzes, this allows for internal or hull damage well below the waterline. For both weight-balance and protection reasons, the boilers, engines, fuel oil storage and magazines are all located below the waterline. In WWIIOL, of course nothing exists below the water surface, and in any case interaction distances and vision ranges are so short that plunging shellfire is impossible, so the damage model places all the damagable elements low but just above the waterline.

I don't know how bombs interact with vessel damage objects, in two respects: fuzing, and damage radius. Regarding fuzing, apparently bombs that are instantaneous-fuzed when they land near ground objects are delay-fuzed when they hit naval vessels, which causes them to penetrate until they hit the surface plane. Regarding damage radius, bombs elsewhere in-game throw fragments over a large area, and those fragments can apply damage energy to nearby soft elements. Maybe that's the case internal to the destroyer model, or maybe the bomb has to directly hit the damage object. 

In an instance where a small number of shot/shell hits from a smaller-caliber weapon cause damage, or many shell hits from a large-caliber weapon don't cause damage, one thing to consider is what internal damage objects were hit. No damage object hits = no damage.

That's not to deny that something might be broken, or some changes might have been intentionally or unintentionally made in how vessel damage works. And, all of my knowledge of how this works is from back when the destroyer model was first introduced, a long time ago. So maybe it's outdated.

 

[Kilemall]

Personally I think ship damage is a mess and needs a thorough overhaul.  Those things are unlike every other vehicle, very vague hitboxes and judging from the few damage model pics I've seen certainly not done to actual compartments, bulwarks, etc.  Damage control should be a thing.  Ships also cry out for 'dynamic crewing' (accepting gunnery and AA crew while ingame).