A-20 Havoc Altimeter

[downtown]

No Little Hand/1000 ft Mark?

[downtown]

[dustyhc]

Yeah Downtown. The A20 is really a HUGE disappointment for me in many areas. I used to gripe about the DB7's characteristics compared to the Boston. After running a few missions with the A20, those two variants are dreams by comparison. Open the Kennel door and stick this dog in. I think CRS - this is only my opinion - rushed it for the Holiday patch.

It needs a lot of TLC. 

[jwilly]

Do you have a list of what's different / unsatisfactory?

[dustyhc]

2 hours ago, jwilly said:

Do you have a list of what's different / unsatisfactory?

Hey Jwilly. Here are my top things:

1. Plane is very "heavy" in comparison with the DB7 and Boston

2. Plane is very hard to trim out in comparison with DB7 and Boston

3. Plane wobbles terribly when trying to line up for final approach while level bombing. Briefest moment out of auto pilot at bombing alt (5km/15,000 ft) and it is all over the place.

4. Following the same level bombing protocol used for Boston and DB7 (with >98% accuracy) results in complete misses of the target. 

5. Agree with Downtown - Altimeter is pretty prehistoric, even for 80 year old technology. 

 

Maybe its just me. The plane is not a cooperative mount with me at the stick. 

[dustyhc]

P.S. - "Complete Misses" = bombs landing Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay long from the target using the same settings used in DB7 and Boston. This has happened numerous time now. Enough that I'm not level bombing in this plane. I've run hundreds of level bombing missions with near perfect performance, so I can't attribute this to anything I'm doing different. 

[BMBM]

54 minutes ago, dustyhc said:

1. Plane is very "heavy" in comparison with the DB7 and Boston

It IS heavier by some 5000 lb. It is also more powerful and some 30-40 mph faster.

Pts 2, 3 I’ll have to refer to Hatch who did the FM. I didn’t experience the wobble much though my experience and testing is/was brief at 15,000.

I’ll have a look at the altimeter.

What speed/alt/engine settings are you using for your bombing runs?

[dustyhc]

6 hours ago, BMBM said:

It IS heavier by some 5000 lb. It is also more powerful and some 30-40 mph faster.

Pts 2, 3 I’ll have to refer to Hatch who did the FM. I didn’t experience the wobble much though my experience and testing is/was brief at 15,000.

I’ll have a look at the altimeter.

What speed/alt/engine settings are you using for your bombing runs?

Hi Bmbm,
Example: Koln #8

Flight Altitude = 15,000

Sight Alt setting = 14,855

IAS/TAS = Max

Engine Setting: No WEP. Continuous or Economy

Results = Bombs Land long. 

Observation based on your comment  - Maybe I'll dial the IAS/TAS back by 35 mph as - theoretically - that could account for the bombs landing long.

Question: Is it 5,000 lbs heavier due to additional armor , armament, or ordinance?

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by dustyhc
Needed to add content

[BMBM]

The extra weight is due to heavier engines, superchargers, addtl armor and self-sealing tanks.

[adam1168]

not so relevant to us now but:- i also found A20 bombs dropping long upon using the bombsights, i assumed it was my error , because level bombing has never been a strongpoint, but with dustys post i have to say that this probably was the issue, we had 2 runs where i was100% certain the speed and altitude was correct, at least the 111 works! gl next map allies  (sarcasm inserted here)  , hope the A20 gets sorted!

[downtown]

I have been unable to get the speed on the bomb sight to match the speed that is indicated, it has been about 20MPH slower in my experience.  I'm flying at 320 and maxes at 297?  Flying at 280 it maxes at 257 or 262?  So I've been having it maxed as well and I've been long or short.  Not having that 1000 foot indicator I figured one run I was at 25000 when I thought I was at 15000 so I've been more cognitive of watching my altitude when I climb.

[dustyhc]

Yep Downtown. Definitely something CRS needs to investigate and fix. Until then I'll use it for busting FBs as a dive bomber, but as a level bomber  it is a pile. 

[OLDZEKE]

I'll setup a ticket to have it checked to determine if it's the altimeter or airspeed indicator off. It's not a trivial thing to adjust as it requires editing data in the model file itself (creator flt file).

[dustyhc]

Thanks Zeke <S>. Please keep us posted here. 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by dustyhc

[OLDZEKE]

Airspeed indicator looks to be a little too fast. I got around 248mph on the indicator at 6k/19680' when actual ias was 230.184845

Ticket created.

[OLDZEKE]

Altimeter was dead on 

[OLDZEKE]

Just to add also I did include a question as to if there should be a 3rd short 10000’ needle on the altimeter

[downtown]

This is the altimeter in the P-38 notice the additional hand.

[dustyhc]

Update 12/31/2020 11:51pm:

After BMBMs explanation regarding weight and power, I can dial in the plane to the target without any problem. It's pretty straightforward. 

 

--------------------------- HOWEVER -------------------------------------

I can't seem to find any combination with TAS/IAS that will result in bombs landing on target. 
As a sanity check, I took up a Boston, and using my normal protocol, landed 8 in the box, no problem.
So, it ain't me. 

If anyone has figured out how to make this thing level bomb with the same precision/predictability  as the DB7 and Boston please let me know. 
Until then, I guess I'll use the Boston and DB7 for RDP level bombing.

 

Hope CRS can untie this knot. 

[BMBM]

I’ll add the missing needle. My bad.

[dustyhc]

Got it figured out. 

The higher speed capability of the A20 overwhelms the max bombsight IAS setting at my level bombing altitude (15k/5km).

If I chop the throttle back such that my Pilot IAS = a steady 230 MPH and I set the bombsight IAS to 15 mph below that (ie 215 MPH) then the bombs land on target. 

[adam1168]

thank you for the swift response to this issue CRS

[OLDZEKE]

58 minutes ago, dustyhc said:

Got it figured out. 

The higher speed capability of the A20 overwhelms the max bombsight IAS setting at my level bombing altitude (15k/5km).

If I chop the throttle back such that my Pilot IAS = a steady 230 MPH and I set the bombsight IAS to 15 mph below that (ie 215 MPH) then the bombs land on target. 

I'll try to setup time in the next week or so to open up that cockpit and determine if I can calibrate the airspeed indicator gauge or if Hatch needs to check the data being sent to the gauge.

[dustyhc]

Thanks Zeke!!!!!