Firefly Turret Bustle

[goreblimey]

Seems to be almost no armour on this structure. 

FAIK there know should be 50mm plus. FIX needed. 

[goreblimey]

@BMBM

[BMBM]

Armor is present, no fix needed. 

[goreblimey]

1 hour ago, BMBM said:

Armor is present, no fix needed. 

Explain why 232 goes thru it then ?, Explain why i can detrack the tank by shooting there ? No way will 232 penetrate 60mm armour thats the back panel.

Even oblique (at least 45 degree to side)  hits can are going thu side panel (50mm ). You model is broken, or 232 pen is miraculous. @BMBM

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by goreblimey

[fidd]

The 232 is messed up in just about every respect. It's possible to hit it with 2pdrs at just about any range without killing the gunner, but particularly at short range from the front. The best bet is the "track" it. As for the armour penetration, that's just beyond parody. My guess is that no audit occurs on the 232, as there's no turreted German A/C comparable to the DAC or Panhard, and therefore there's no appetite at CRS to look too closely at the 232 for fear of discovering all the faults with it's modelling, were that particular rock turned over. In the ordinary way, of course they'd feel no such reticence, but as A/C's are so good at flanking at speed through the bloody-awful colliderless hedgerows, any decrease in the survivability and hitting power of the 232 would have a major impact on the game.

Which means in order to fix the 232, being practical from a fairness point of view, the terrain needs to be fixed first. That is somewhat unlikely to occur quickly.

[B2K]

3 hours ago, fidd said:

The 232 is messed up in just about every respect. It's possible to hit it with 2pdrs at just about any range without killing the gunner, but particularly at short range from the front. The best bet is the "track" it. As for the armour penetration, that's just beyond parody. My guess is that no audit occurs on the 232, as there's no turreted German A/C comparable to the DAC or Panhard, and therefore there's no appetite at CRS to look too closely at the 232 for fear of discovering all the faults with it's modelling, were that particular rock turned over. In the ordinary way, of course they'd feel no such reticence, but as A/C's are so good at flanking at speed through the bloody-awful colliderless hedgerows, any decrease in the survivability and hitting power of the 232 would have a major impact on the game.

Which means in order to fix the 232, being practical from a fairness point of view, the terrain needs to be fixed first. That is somewhat unlikely to occur quickly.

awesome conspiracy.  It's actually a much more benign answer - There is plenty of appetite to fix broken/not correctly performing models, it's just a matter of where in the priority list stuff falls.  At the moment there are a number of higher priority things to fix first.   

Example:  One of the bugfixes in this recently rolled back patch fixed an issue where shrapnel for non-penetrating rounds was generating inside turrets.  This fix alone, may solve the issue the OP raised.  Or it may not.

[fidd]

2 minutes ago, B2K said:

awesome conspiracy.  It's actually a much more benign answer - There is plenty of appetite to fix broken/not correctly performing models, it's just a matter of where in the priority list stuff falls.  At the moment there are a number of higher priority things to fix first. 

LOL. I wasn't implying a conspiracy on CRS2's part, the 232 has been exhibiting some apparent odd behaviour since it came out more or less 20 years ago, we've all just come to accept it as it is over the years. I suspect part of it is the lack of feedback - other than the gunner continues to fire - there's no hit-mark, so refining your aim to hit it in different spots to establish where to hit it and kill the gunner from different aspects is tricky. I pretty much only bother hitting them from the side and removing its ability to move or use it's weapon easily. As a fault, it's not a big deal, but if you engage one with a 2pdr with it coming towards you, it does seem to soak up an awful lot of hits, especially at close range - which is a longstanding problem with all AP shot v all vehicles. It's just more noticeable with the 232. I'd be interested to know if the axis have similar issues with other thin-armoured allied vehicles such as the Vickers, Panhard, DAC and so forth.

[BMBM]

6 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Explain why 232 goes thru it then ?, Explain why i can detrack the tank by shooting there ? No way will 232 penetrate 60mm armour thats the back panel.

Even oblique (at least 45 degree to side)  hits can are going thu side panel (50mm ). You model is broken, or 232 pen is miraculous. @BMBM

 

Need further testing/verification to see if this is actually the case. The model as such is fine.

[goreblimey]

44 minutes ago, BMBM said:

Need further testing/verification to see if this is actually the case. The model as such is fine.

Why do you need to imply that this isnt the case, I’m reporting a fact. It needs to be brought to someone’s attention not dismissed as not an issue . 

 

[delems]

*** similar issues with other thin-armoured allied vehicles such as the Vickers

All the time with the viky I hear in game... (sometimes with panny)

'What, 4 shreck and viky still going?'

'Hammered viky with 88, no damage?'

I even watched one time a IIIB and and I think IIIF/IVD chase a viky through a town firing on it.... could not kill it for like 5 min.

In game yesterday, 111 drops 4 bombs on eDD, says watches all 4 land and explodes -- then not even hit registered in AAR and eDD not flamed.

 

There is something else going on in game beside armor / shell interaction I think.  No idea my self as to what.

But I've seen it in both DD and FMB.... fire on enemy ship and rounds do nothing - pass right through. (well, it is how I see it)

Back off some, and rounds start registering.

[fidd]

In my view that the 232 model has always been buggered, for decades, it's just that as it is ultimately easy to kill - albeit with several rounds - this has never been a high priority, for players, or CRS1/2 to look at. It is also highly possible that this is a problem of many models of many light vehicles where there's a significant over-match of solid AP shot v thin armour, which is why I asked if axis players also experienced this type of issue with other, similar, thinly armoured light-tanks or A/C's, ie, it may be a generic problem, rather than specifically a 232 problem. IYSWIM.

One would think that a 2pdr hit on a 232 would go in the front, and out the back, abolishing everything in it's path and creating a fair bit of shrapnel from now accelerated internal parts of the vehicle dislodged by the shot. I suspect that the issue with such close-range over-match hits is that the model of the vehicle/hit with AP shot, doesn't include all the ironmongery within the vehicle as generating secondary shrapnel, and is essentially treated as a nearly empty metal box, the thin armour producing very little shrapnel and no scabbing (because of the over-match?

Edited April 20, 2021 by fidd

[vanapo]

1 hour ago, delems said:

then not even hit registered in AAR

Seen that problem multiple times as well with near bomb impacts especially. It seems like shrapnels are often either generated in a very strange way (so a near bomb explosion doesn't even hit a very big target right next to it) or they are sometimes not generated at all. As I have to play with a very high ping at any given time, I never take my gunnery/bombardment results as representative though. The limited situational awareness I got when I am flying at some hundred kph a few hundred meters above the scene doesn't help with judging my results without bias either.

But I hope CRS has people testing everything with a combination of high and low pings as well as we have people with very varying internet connections playing together and against each other at any given time.

Edited April 20, 2021 by vanapo

[BMBM]

1 hour ago, goreblimey said:

Why do you need to imply that this isnt the case, I’m reporting a fact. It needs to be brought to someone’s attention not dismissed as not an issue . 

 

We simply need to verify that the problem is reproducable, that’s all. SOP.

[BMBM]

Upon further investigation a bug was found. Ticketed. Thanks for bringing it to attention.

[goreblimey]

Ty

[N8]

lol