****CRS PLEASE READ, DAMAGE MODEL ON AXIS FIGHTERS TWEAKED TOO FAR TO AXIS ADVANTAGE******

[sxchuck]

Recently the damage from my fighters has had little to no damage on axis fighters.  In once case I had a 190  that I had hit and was smoking with coolant and fuel who miraculously was able to stop smoking and was then was able to suddenly stop smoking and then able to out run me and turn to shoot me down.  I have a witness to this incident.  On numerous cases I fired all my ammo at a fighter and did not even score a hit.  Granted I'm not the best shot but I've been playing this long enough to know I should have hit him with my MG at least a few times.  You have blatantly adjusted the damage model to favor the Axis.  Not cool at all.  And almost game breaking for this type of behind the scenes buggery.  

[rmwln]

1 minute ago, sxchuck said:

Recently the damage from my fighters has had little to no damage on axis fighters.  In once case I had a 190  that I had hit and was smoking with coolant and fuel who miraculously was able to stop smoking and was then was able to suddenly stop smoking and then able to out run me and turn to shoot me down.  I have a witness to this incident.  On numerous cases I fired all my ammo at a fighter and did not even score a hit.  Granted I'm not the best shot but I've been playing this long enough to know I should have hit him with my MG at least a few times.  You have blatantly adjusted the damage model to favor the Axis.  Not cool at all.  And almost game breaking for this type of behind the scenes buggery.  

I have to say this is a fair post, to be honest the self repairing 190 has been mentioned alot recently, many of us have seen it.

Example being - Perfect multiple cannon hits result in coolant and fuel leak and or both - then all of a sudden the 190 then sort of - SELF REPAIRS IN FLIGHT = No smoke and or damage of any kind then seems to gain unreal speed much to the surprise of the fighter pilot.

On the flip side this doesnt seem to happen on every 190 encounter concerning damage etc - tweeking - but never the less it does seem to be occuring more and more.

 

One last example from myself would be a 190 taking 90% of my rounds (and im not a bad fighter pilot) i expect it to either explode or flame - but best you get is coolant leak or fuel leak which then repairs itself while pulling away from you - personally i do think something is not right, not sure what it is and im also wondering if the 190 pilots are even aware of it ?!

[Mosizlak]

Seen this happen with spitfires and canes I've hit with AA rounds.  Started leaking/smoking and then it goes away like magic. 

[fidd]

As a rule, you'll likely need to be able to show a repeatable event that can be independently reproduced for a bug, or over-enthusiastic tweak to be taken seriously as a fault to investigate. This is a very difficult game in many respects, no matter the arm, and we all of us have experienced, at some time or another, profoundly annoying events  which can have the appearance of bugs or other issues, but which can alternatively be a consequence of a lag spike, poor technique or merely bad luck. My advice would be to team up with a mate on the other side, agree to meet in combat at a particular area, and to see if you can come to a firmer evidence-based conclusion which others can replicate. At which point you'll find CRS both willing and capable of looking into it.

Regards, 

[halsey]

I have noticed that leaks, while they do disappear, do not repair.  Many times I have been hit, watched the coolant trail "repair" then have that engine overheat within minutes.  As for aircraft being toughened, the 190, 110, ju87, p38, and all the hurricane models were toughened to reflect historical toughness of the airframes.  I'm not saying the rats got it 100% right, but it was not a side biased change.

[jester]

Just some quick facts

 

Coolant - white - if it was leaking and stops, that means coolant is gone and engine will be overheating in time.

Fuel - light brown - many aircraft such as the 190 have self sealing fuel tanks so this one commonly leaks and quickly stops afterward.

Oil - dark brown - if it was leaking and stops, that plane's engine is dead very quickly.

Edited June 29, 2021 by jester

[atgman]

And to add to that, the 190 in game has no coolant at all, air cooled engine.

If the 190 spews coolant, THAT is a bug.

Edited June 29, 2021 by atgman

[OLDZEKE]

Neither 190 in game has any coolant lines nor radiator in the DM. 

Looking at the data it calls for (I think) a engine fire effect. My best guess is that when the old team changed the effects they swapped out a "dead or crit damaged engine" fire animation/fx for a  heavy coolant leak fx. 

This would ultimately be a Hatch thing to determine for sure But I just did some testing while logging on a dev server and the 190 only started smoking white with a crit damage to the engine.

Maybe  should change that to a black smoke fx for blown engines on radials so as to keep visual feedback without confusion.

[hazziewaz]

I've never seen a 190 lose parts either such as an elevator or anything, but I don't know anything about planes. I just know that the 190s/hurricanes are the ones that require the most ammo to kill lol.

[OLDZEKE]

OK looking at the fx data both the glycol fx and the enginefire (aircraft at least) are using the same texture (white). I swapped the texture in that fx data to a black smoke texture then crit damaged the engine and it smoked black so that verifies that.  It's just a matter of "not the best visual feedback". I'll ticket this and kick it up to Hatch (pending the 11ty dozen other things on his plate).

[fidd]

21 minutes ago, hazziewaz said:

I've never seen a 190 lose parts either such as an elevator or anything, but I don't know anything about planes. I just know that the 190s/hurricanes are the ones that require the most ammo to kill lol.

The Hurricane was a very robust air-frame, and as it lacked, particularly on the aft fuselage, stressed-skin construction, it was able to absorb a lot of hits in this area, without much affecting performance. Within the doped -fabric/stringers of this area is the structural welded steel "spine" - similar to a Harvard iirc, which could not be affected to any degree by standard FMJ lead rounds. This construction also permitted low-skills required repairs to fix holes on the squadrons, where similar hits on a Spitfire became a return-to- factory job. This is one of the features missed out, especially in comparisons of Spit and Hurricane during the Battle of Britain, the availability of Hurricanes was much better. I was fortunate to watch the Malta Hurricane restoration many years ago, where all this was visible, and to learn a lot from the engineers.

I can't speak with knowledge on the Fw190, but it has the reputation of being pretty robust in the same way, although that may be more type specific, as considerable armour was bolted onto some versions.

[undercova]

over the last few days all what allied planes needed was like 1 pling ... and my pilot got hit in head. 80% of my deaths in axis planes are instant head shots ... even from planes on my 6 o'clock

my 110 FB today got blown up by just 1 bofors hit ...

 

for allied planes it is the complete opposite. you pump so many rounds into them ... and they fly fine. for axis planes ... just 1 hit and your plane becomes uncontrollable ... flops ... wobbles ... and so on

[goreblimey]

28 minutes ago, undercova said:

over the last few days all what allied planes needed was like 1 pling ... and my pilot got hit in head. 80% of my deaths in axis planes are instant head shots ... even from planes on my 6 o'clock

my 110 FB today got blown up by just 1 bofors hit ...

 

for allied planes it is the complete opposite. you pump so many rounds into them ... and they fly fine. for axis planes ... just 1 hit and your plane becomes uncontrollable ... flops ... wobbles ... and so on

That’s how the game is supposed to work, as apposed to your normal mode of somehow rounds missing you due to packet loss.

[jwilly]

28 minutes ago, undercova said:

my 110 FB today got blown up by just 1 bofors hit ...

Not trying to get involved in a side-bias discussion. Realism-wise though:

One 40mm HE shell explosion anywhere in contact with any aircraft currently modeled for WWIIOL should result in that plane crashing. No partial damage, no nothing. Down it goes.

 

[Mosizlak]

On 6/29/2021 at 5:28 PM, jwilly said:

Not trying to get involved in a side-bias discussion. Realism-wise though:

One 40mm HE shell explosion anywhere in contact with any aircraft currently modeled for WWIIOL should result in that plane crashing. No partial damage, no nothing. Down it goes.

 

Good luck with that, rarely happens now. 

Before this fiasco the only planes that used to soak up bofor's rounds were tankfires and the flying matildas called db7s. Now it's everything. 

[fidd]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:51 PM, undercova said:

over the last few days all what allied planes needed was like 1 pling ... and my pilot got hit in head. 80% of my deaths in axis planes are instant head shots ... even from planes on my 6 o'clock

my 110 FB today got blown up by just 1 bofors hit ...

 

for allied planes it is the complete opposite. you pump so many rounds into them ... and they fly fine. for axis planes ... just 1 hit and your plane becomes uncontrollable ... flops ... wobbles ... and so on

perhaps it's just a large target? 

[jwilly]

I'm just echoing prior Scotsman comments.

Scotsman's career was as a manager of development programs for military ordnance. I think he's well qualified among us to describe destructive effects.

My perception is that CRS1 wanted AA to be less dangerous to planes because a lot more of their customers flew planes and liked killing ground targets, than played AA and liked killing planes; and CRS2 has stuck with that realism-nerf.

[Mosizlak]

6 minutes ago, jwilly said:

I'm just echoing prior Scotsman comments.

Scotsman's career was as a manager of development programs for military ordnance. I think he's well qualified among us to describe destructive effects.

My perception is that CRS1 wanted AA to be less dangerous to planes because a lot more of their customers flew planes and liked killing ground targets, than played AA and liked killing planes; and CRS2 has stuck with that realism-nerf.

That's a 30mm German mine round. 

I'd expect the bofors 40mm to be at least comparable to that.  

If that plane had been flying, that wing was gone. 

I've hit single engine planes with 2 or 3 40mm and they flew off. Hit a p38 4x. Flew off after strafing me. 

I've hit db7s/a20s 7x+ and not scored a kill, granted they were in bad shape, but 7 hits at least? 

[jwilly]

Like every other tactical shooter, the game has many gross unrealisms. This is just one.

Edited July 1, 2021 by jwilly

[Kilemall]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:51 PM, undercova said:

over the last few days all what allied planes needed was like 1 pling ... and my pilot got hit in head. 80% of my deaths in axis planes are instant head shots ... even from planes on my 6 o'clock

my 110 FB today got blown up by just 1 bofors hit ...

 

for allied planes it is the complete opposite. you pump so many rounds into them ... and they fly fine. for axis planes ... just 1 hit and your plane becomes uncontrollable ... flops ... wobbles ... and so on

It is only the fact of the genetically engineered intellect of Undercova that allows the Axis to survive....