251 passengers.

[delems]

Still can't stand or lay down in the back of the 251.

Edited November 14, 2021 by delems

[BMBM]

Passenger’s posture is static. That’s not going to change.

[delems]

I mean the riders.

I jump in, and fall through.  I want to stand in back or lay down.

Fix the floor

Edited November 14, 2021 by delems

[jwilly]

3 hours ago, delems said:

Still can't stand or lay down in the back of the 251.

"Still"? Was there a statement at some point that that fundamental vehicle-design-limitation was going to change?

Quote

Passenger’s posture is static.

The visual representation of a rider/passenger is part of the vehicle...not visually related to your infantry character.

Quote

That’s not going to change.

Sounds like New CRS isn't aware of any such plan for a change to the fundamental vehicle-design-limitation.

[delems]

Just put a floor in.

[jwilly]

We've been told before that there are fundamental code problems with having a collider as part of a vehicle-model, that infantry characters can "lay/kneel/stand/walk/run" on.

If that were possible, then this would be possible.

And I'd guess that CRS would really like that functionality, so it not being achievable isn't a matter of CRS not being motivated.

[BMBM]

Oh you mean that if you’re in back as a non-rider you can’t use the floor? There is a floor collider in there iirc. I’ll have another look.

[Mosizlak]

Been like that since it got into the game, same with m10...

 

 

[Kidd27]

yup, that looks like an issue Mo

[Mosizlak]

5 minutes ago, Kidd27 said:

yup, that looks like an issue Mo

I posted that vid, and the m10 vid, in 2016.   

Anything with a floor like that doesn't actually have a floor, just the visual component it seems.  That's why you can never kill the crews with grenades. They all just fall thru the floor and end up exploding underneath, where the bottom armor then protects the vehicle. 

I'd suspect that if you managed to get one of our flubber grenades down the hatch of any tank, this would happen as well. Fall thru and explode under. 

Also why you can't stand in the bed of the 251 and do drive bys lol

[Kidd27]

side bar: do you remember the short time when inf could jump on a plane and go prone on the wings.

2016 eh?

[fidd]

if infantry bums can be made to adhere to seats then so can grenades. If you cant change the collider, change the grenade.

[Mosizlak]

1 hour ago, Kidd27 said:

side bar: do you remember the short time when inf could jump on a plane and go prone on the wings.

2016 eh?

Or when paras first came out you could literally crash the transport into the CP and the paras would get thrown into the CP and not be hurt? LOL funny times

[jwilly]

57 minutes ago, fidd said:

if infantry bums can be made to adhere to seats then so can grenades. If you cant change the collider, change the grenade.

My understanding has been that a rider on a tank or truck isn't a visual model "belonging" to the infantryman-game-element it visually represents. Instead it "belongs" to the tank or truck. One such model per seat...or, when the code doesn't work right, more than one model per seat.

When an infantryman Joins the tank or truck, that element of the tank or truck model is made visible, and the visual model of the infantryman is turned off. All of this is taken care of with database transactions that track the infantryman's location in the gameworld as being where the tank or truck is located.

Then when the infantryman leaves his tank or truck "seat", the rider visual element of the tank or truck model is turned off, and the visual model of the infantryman is turned back on at his new location.

So riders aren't "supported" by the seats they're sitting on. The rider visual representation and the seat visual representation are just geometrically located so that the rider-model is at the right location above the seat-model to look as if it's sitting there.

Someone...I guess not BMBM...told us in the past that the colliders in various models facing upward, that would be expected to stop thrown-in grenades and perhaps support infantrymen who somehow climbed or dropped in, don't do so because of some aspect of Presagis / Multigen code that causes colliders too far inside models but facing outward to not work as one might expect.

[jwilly]

Quote

Anything with a floor like that doesn't actually have a floor, just the visual component it seems.  

Someone told us in the past that all the models that would be expected to have inward/upward-facing floor-colliders do in fact have such colliders...but they don't work. The Presagis / Multigen Creator compiler somehow doesn't result in them being functional as colliders.

And, at least prior to the UE work underway, vehicle models could only be built using Creator. Using OpenFlight (.flt) models and therefore Creator technology was a core design commitment at the beginning of the game's system design. I don't know if the UE work will result in being able to build models outside of Creator, that would't be dependent on Creator's limitations as to how inside-but-facing-out colliders work.

[fidd]

26 minutes ago, jwilly said:

My understanding has been that a rider on a tank or truck isn't a visual model "belonging" to the infantryman-game-element it visually represents. Instead it "belongs" to the tank or truck. One such model per seat...or, when the code doesn't work right, more than one model per seat.

When an infantryman Joins the tank or truck, that element of the tank or truck model is made visible, and the visual model of the infantryman is turned off. All of this is taken care of with database transactions that track the infantryman's location in the gameworld as being where the tank or truck is located.

Then when the infantryman leaves his tank or truck "seat", the rider visual element of the tank or truck model is turned off, and the visual model of the infantryman is turned back on at his new location.

So riders aren't "supported" by the seats they're sitting on. The rider visual representation and the seat visual representation are just geometrically located so that the rider-model is at the right location above the seat-model to look as if it's sitting there.

Someone...I guess not BMBM...told us in the past that the colliders in various models facing upward, that would be expected to stop thrown-in grenades and perhaps support infantrymen who somehow climbed or dropped in, don't do so because of some aspect of Presagis / Multigen code that causes colliders too far inside models but facing outward to not work as one might expect.

Spoil-sport!  

[Sudden]

If we had trains we could easily fit 251 passengers. 

[Dre21]

13 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Been like that since it got into the game, same with m10...

 

 

That should be fixed , especially if more and more troop transports come into the game.

[BMBM]

TR6AL and I have experimented comprehensively with interior colliders for opentopped vehicles without success, last year iirc. The game engine doesn’t understand how to deal with the trajectories, or how to pass from exterior to interior without passing through a face. So nades either bounce crazily and exit or pass right through. We’ve done as much as we can there. The floor, for inf alighting from a passenger seat, may be another issue that I’m looking at.

[berzerkr]

10 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Or when paras first came out you could literally crash the transport into the CP and the paras would get thrown into the CP and not be hurt? LOL funny times

never new that one lol, imo the infantry prone on wing was a fix not a bug, crouching in the back of a truck drive bys were awesome and that grenade issue might not be one if it was still in the game.

[jwilly]

3 hours ago, BMBM said:

TR6AL and I have experimented comprehensively with interior colliders for opentopped vehicles without success, last year iirc. The game engine doesn’t understand how to deal with the trajectories, or how to pass from exterior to interior without passing through a face. So nades either bounce crazily and exit or pass right through. 

An idea:

My understanding is that colliders facing "outward" and near an "outside" face do work correctly.

What if the visual floor of an APC, truck or other open top vehicle with a recessed-well interior was where it historically belongs, but the collider for that floor was located just slightly recessed into the model? So, it'd be well above the visual floor. I'm thinking the collider would be about shoulder height for any crew / riders.

Grenades thrown into the open top of the vehicle would stop at the collider, and explode per their fuze type and timing. Ditto for shells and bombs.

Most of the riders' / crews' bodies within the model would be protected from harm by the transparent collider...but their heads, at least, would be exposed. There's a reasonable likelihood that a grenade or any other fragment-generating explosive device, exploding at the height of the collider, would cause injuries or worse to those riders / crew.

The injuries would be to the wrong body parts, and having time-fuzed grenades stop in mid-air would look odd to viewers close to the target vehicle and above it. But in most circumstances, a more realistic outcome would be likely than is the case right now, with the floor collider at the right location but not working.

[BMBM]

Trust me we have tried that. We built all kinds of variants to try and confine grenades.

[Mosizlak]

Before the bias crowd shows up, it happens to the m10 too. 

 

 

[undercova]

i remember this one ...

[warspite]

It's been a few years since I saw the code but I seem to remember the grenades had various special cases within the code to 'fix' certain cases but that inadvertently causes issues such as above