PzJg no concussion

[lovewing]

I was going to make a guide to using the PzJg to combat the matilda (how to sneak it past infantry and get less than 200m to matty to kill -- 80% sarcasm)

While editing the footage, I noticed the matilda had no concussion effect from the PzJg, is this normal?

From 0:00-405 I fire 58 shots at it from ~250m no concussion

I then drive forward to less than 190m to fire at it until small kill spot is found, no concussion even on kill shot.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by lovewing

[berzerkr]

yeah i also like it when u duck all the crew inside for protection they still can be shot by infantry

[lovewing]

I wasnt sure if pzjg had special ammo that wouldnt cause concussion (I know PZ ammo is some type of APHE and HEAT also has explosive properties, but I think the 2lbr is just AP but causes concussions.

I test pzjg vs sherman and a few others, no concussions on them either.

If all shells are supposed to cause concussion then I believe the pzjg shell may be bugged as it fails to concuss other units.

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Update: further narrowed it down,

The pzjg does not cause concussion when using HE either, as shown in this vid

https://streamable.com/7dgpxt

I had to use streamable due to too many uploads on youtube for this 24h.

Pretty sure this has been narrowed down even further to the issue being related to the pzjg's projectiles

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by lovewing

[jester]

Lovewing, you should volunteer for CRS QA team. This is this kind of stuff that needs to be ID'd before it comes to the playerbase.

[lovewing]

I applied but then realized I think you have to do NDA etc. I just like trying to figure out how to kill things with weakest units and/or break the game, dont want to have to keep secrets that isn't any fun for me

Not sure if its impractical for X reason but they should have their initial in house QA testing and then when thats done have a public access for testing for X days for anyone who wants to do it. Then submit public testing data so things can be addressed while the 'iron is hot'

Edited February 24, 2022 by lovewing

[OLDZEKE]

The pzjg ap round does not have a explosive element. it's AP rather than APHE

[Mosizlak]

33 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

The pzjg ap round does not have a explosive element. it's AP rather than APHE

When you get hit with 2lb AP with no HE element you get a concussion effect. 

[jwilly]

Assuming we're talking about a "concussion effect" against AFV-crew inside a closed, non-penetrated armor-body, the "concussion effect" in real life is due to the (very slight) inward flexing of the armor, resulting in generation of an acoustic impulse within the enclosed space.

With regard to such flexing, there is no physics difference between momentary mechanical impulse against the armor due to explosion overpressure, and momentary mechanical impulse against the armor due to deceleration of an inert kinetic projectile. The area under the force-time curve for a given gun caliber is comparable for AP and APHE shell types. The armor flexes slightly due to either source of force-impulse.

AP vs. APHE makes some difference in regard to lethal effects within the AFV if penetration occurs. AP throws hot steel at high velocity around the interior. APHE of course is less likely to penetrate for a given caliber, since it arrives at the armor with less mass and less rigidity for the mass it has, but if it penetrates it generates a flame cloud inside the tank which increases the likelihood of fire, and throws additional fragments.

AP vs. APHE also makes a significant difference in lethality to nearby soft targets outside the target, whether penetration occurs or not. In addition to the significant percentage of the steel from the penetration zone that's ejected outward at high velocity as hot fragments or a spray of droplets, an APHE round that does not penetrate therefore explodes at the external armor surface, resulting in external explosive fragmentation and flame-cloud effects.

Edited March 3, 2022 by jwilly

[jwilly]

This specially arranged photo of an AP penetrator going straight through a scrap tank on a range, illustrates the spray of molten steel that results. 

This is visually accentuated because the film was infrared sensitive, and a short time exposure was done so each droplet had a visual tracer effect. In daylight, all that steel would be almost invisible, except for the burning-iron smoke. However, any one of those droplets would be sufficient to at least incapacitate a nearby soldier or cause significant damage to any other soft-target type.

Sprayed particles/droplets like this can be lethal at fifteen meters or more.

I'd like it if CRS's physics code was (even more) realistic in regard to AP and HEAT processes, along these lines.

Edited March 3, 2022 by jwilly

[OLDZEKE]

1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

When you get hit with 2lb AP with no HE element you get a concussion effect. 

I'll check that. Won't affect performance but if so is not good player feedback

 

[OLDZEKE]

Ahhh, yea that's a game engine limitation best I know. If the weapon has ap and he, player can switch between the 2 rounds, only one 3rd person efx is available so they are set to the he round for the 3rd person visual and sound efx. So the target player, anyone near sees a HE burst effect and sound effect but no actual concussion damage joules are applied. If the weapon only has ap/solid shot in the loadout then it displays the silver hit mark/dust/sparks and a "ping" kinda hit sound

 

[lovewing]

I may have misunderstood context, in case I didnt:

1) Pzjg AP causes no concussion/blurred gun sight view on tank being hit

2) Pzjg HE also causes no concussion/blurred gun sight view

The tank being hit by the pzjg's HE and AP will have a clear gun sight view, able to easily aim at the pzjg

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If this is due to a limitation then disregard, just wanted to re-state the issue a bit more clearly

[OLDZEKE]

Ticketed for review.