Bushes and lack there of ...

[kc23]

There is a significant reduction in bush size and quanity.

I think this will be a huge issue.

MSP will be extremely hard to hide and easy to find. Attacks will die off in no time and it will be next to impossible to get more msp in for an attack. You can see huge distances in most towns very easily. The ant trail will be childs play to find and with only a few bushes or berm areas the emsp could be, attack msp will be dead in a mere few minutes.

[angriff]

There is a significant reduction in bush size and quanity.

I think this will be a huge issue.

MSP will be extremely hard to hide and easy to find. Attacks will die off in no time and it will be next to impossible to get more msp in for an attack. You can see huge distances in most towns very easily. The ant trail will be childs play to find and with only a few bushes or berm areas the emsp could be, attack msp will be dead in a mere few minutes.

Infantry wanted little walls all around and they got that.

[gtanner]

I thought it looked better, i wouldn't say it's a huge issue by far but we'll see that during online testing i think.

[monsjoex]

Oh noes maby people have to work together now to capture a town!!

[frantish]

There is a significant reduction in bush size and quanity.

I think this will be a huge issue.

MSP will be extremely hard to hide and easy to find. Attacks will die off in no time and it will be next to impossible to get more msp in for an attack. You can see huge distances in most towns very easily. The ant trail will be childs play to find and with only a few bushes or berm areas the emsp could be, attack msp will be dead in a mere few minutes.

Pictures to explain this.

In detail, etc.

While its not a bug, Rats may consider what you have to say (the better you say, the more they will look).

But I am not a Rat, just a part time Mod.

[Hinfoos]

yep agree.. i find it to easy when flying over the area already in 1.30 and now it will be even easier

[kc23]

Could care less what others think. I can take one look and know what will happen. I do enough msp driving and killing to know it is quite obvious. Those big gaps between bushes will give away msp location so fricken easy it is absurd.

Air will see trucks several x easier as well.

Edited December 23, 2009 by kc23

[a320]

well if yu dont give pix and show what you mean the rats have nothing to work with like my tracer smoke thread how much easier does it get but was told give example lol

[jackw]

I noticed while checking out some larger cities all the bushes in the middle of the city blocks are gone its just grass tiles now and there are fewer bush areas in the city all together its just not outside of town that was thined out.

I agree more bushes are needed in and out of towns and cities. But maybe it was needed to keep fps up.

[haughtkarl]

My 88 cried tears of joy when it saw that our virtual landscape of Europe no longer resembled Vietnam.

[kc23]

well if yu dont give pix and show what you mean the rats have nothing to work with like my tracer smoke thread how much easier does it get but was told give example lol

They made it ffs. They don't need pics. I'm not talking a few spots on the map, I'm talking the ENTIRE map.

[angriff]

Well you wanted rain and little stone fences. This is a universal replacement type game. It takes too much dev time to place a bunch of different types of bushes everywhere so they do a universal replacement.

[mpathy42]

I hate the bush tunnels we currently have. Bloody impossible to keep your own lines somewhat intact with infantry being able to infiltrate by running full speed through those never ending tunnels... I also think the infantry game will benefit in the way that you will have firefights between berms and walls instead of the constant creeping around in bushes.

I understand the issue you are raising, though. Will have to take a closer look at how the terrain favors/doesn't favor MS placing...

[biggio]

From what I saw infantry has concealment now is like we have never had.

I position clones in various bushes and fallen trees and the stone walls.

I drooped the clones in when I showed clear line of fire. I walked out aways and looked for them. It was unbelievable has to how well the concealment is now.

It's gonna be a ***** getting into towns on defense.

[kc23]

I hate the bush tunnels we currently have. Bloody impossible to keep your own lines somewhat intact with infantry being able to infiltrate by running full speed through those never ending tunnels... I also think the infantry game will benefit in the way that you will have firefights between berms and walls instead of the constant creeping around in bushes.

I understand the issue you are raising, though. Will have to take a closer look at how the terrain favors/doesn't favor MS placing...

Once the first berm fire fight starts it'll take a scout car/tank/inf about 45 seconds to find the emsp and forget about getting another msp anywhere near town.

[monsjoex]

Once the first berm fire fight starts it'll take a scout car/tank/inf about 45 seconds to find the emsp and forget about getting another msp anywhere near town.

So ... people will have to work together ?

Armor columns with infantry walking in between? yes? yes? YES!!! o please god.

[kc23]

So ... people will have to work together ?

Armor columns with infantry walking in between? yes? yes? YES!!! o please god.

Pfft, any rifleman with any talent will pick off your infantry from nearly anywhere with ease and any atg from town can pop out from several places will have line of sight on your armour in even less time because you'll have no infantry support near town.

Oh btw, the golfball forest (all forest areas) are now using pine trees with no low branches and much less width so you can easily see through them from the air and ground level as well.

In general, there not only shorter bushes with bigger gaps between them, but many of the trees that have low branches (oak type trees) are replaced with trees without those low branches (pine). Line of sight has increased big time everywhere.

Edited December 24, 2009 by kc23

[Cloned]

Pfft, any rifleman with any talent will pick off your infantry from nearly anywhere with ease and any atg from town can pop out from several places will have line of sight on your armour in even less time because you'll have no infantry support near town.

Oh btw, the golfball forest (all forest areas) are now using pine trees with no low branches and much less width so you can easily see through them from the air and ground level as well.

In general, there not only shorter bushes with bigger gaps between them, but many of the trees that have low branches (oak type trees) are replaced with trees without those low branches (pine). Line of sight has increased big time everywhere.

Its true. I floated around some towns to check out the layouts and within 500m or less of most single AB towns there are the tree berm areas. Outside of that there is next to nothing. The berms are low- a crouching inf will be exposed, let alone a truck. The big difference to the old tree berms is that they are much lower in size. A tank sitting in town on defense can see 1km with little obstruction. There is no way to hide a truck and since trucks are so easy to kill no amount of teamwork will help. Defenders will have a huge advantage. If it used to take a 2:1 attacker to defender ratio it'll take 5:1 now. I guess thats good for the allies. I guess mortars laying smoke and 1.2km MSPs will be SOP to get close to town now.

Large towns will be even worse... The new buildings look nice, but since they are not enterable there is nowhere to hide. Around depots there are places for inf to enter buildings for cover, but between depots its an open wasteland. Axis will have it easier seeing as they actually have an armored APC that could ferry troops to depots and provide limited cover from small arms. Tankers will have a field day since there are so few places for infantry to hide. The only hope is that the blown state of the new buildings offer some cover for infantry in large cities.

[danlo]

Please bear in mind that I do not have a super computer so I'm sure this would look better on someone elses comp. This screenshot was basically me noticing the broken wagon. But you get an idea how the bushlines work now. 1 medium, 1-4 small bushes, then a medium, 1-4 small, on and on and on.

And here is what the "golfball" forest look like now.

Edited December 24, 2009 by danlo

[angriff]

Please bear in mind that I do not have a super computer so I'm sure this would look better on someone elses comp. This screenshot was basically me noticing the broken wagon. But you get an idea how the bushlines work now. 1 medium, 1-4 small bushes, then a medium, 1-4 small, on and on and on.

And here is what the "golfball" forest look like now.

The second picture is disturbing. That is not a Forrest it is a Stand.

[kpfzer]

I think the terrain is looking more realistic now... we have wayyyyy to much brush in our current version. I like driving opels too and I will take it as a new challenge.

[kpfzer]

Once the first berm fire fight starts it'll take a scout car/tank/inf about 45 seconds to find the emsp and forget about getting another msp anywhere near town.

with a wider view, ATRs and atgs will be able to takeout scout cars with ease. Not like now that we have 2m brush everywhere.

plus there are several new places to hide msps. Im in love with this new terrain

Edited December 24, 2009 by kpfzer

[a320]

Place truck clones around a town in various spots then spawn whatever you like to try and find them

[a320]

how many are in this picture

they are beddys figured they be easier to see

but i can see youre issue with actually geting them into place

Edited December 24, 2009 by a320

[a320]