The New 109 Control

[DOC]

When logged into the game, before you do anything else, select your PREFERANCES tab.

Then select your CONTROLLERS tab.

Then select your JOYSTICK (elevators/ailerons not rudder)

Look at each "axis" line (this refers to the total range of movement of your controller in a graphical display along that specific axis of movement) ... and depicts where your controller is at "hands off" with no trim added by the user.

The line should be a straight line from the bottom left corner to the top right corner, with the red box DEAD CENTER along that line. The green lines depicting the edges of the "box" should be right out at the edges of the visible grey area of the box, not drawn inwards towards the center at all.

This is what is referred to as "default" joystick configuration.

If you are going to make a custom set-up for control that suits you as an individual better, you have to start from this point. Using a custom set-up from the old planes that you developed over time in them, is a sure way to not get this new set-up right for your style of flying.

[javelin1]

Damn i'll have to CUT the trim wheel off me throttle,im always playing with it,the trim wheel that is..

Im a bit lost with this DEFAULT setting,is this for the ones who have changed their cmfl file or what ever its called..

If you changed your scaling ( moved the red boxes with the green lines the ones that look like this ) ( my old Settings )

you need to set them back to the Default ( all the way up and to the right and the red box in the center )if you never moved them it wont matter.

Edit , Doc Beat me to it.

Edited December 9, 2010 by javelin1

[gutted]

I deleted all my .calib files last night.

[Slpr]

I deleted all my .calib files last night.

fail safe procedure!

so long slpr

[javelin1]

Doc A lot of players have had a problem with the game not giving them full throttle. i have posted this Scaling for the throttle and it has helped a pile of players , is their any way to make this default ?

[DOC]

You can still pull the green bars in but be aware that this isn't "default" that's all. The line across it and where the red square are should still be straight corner to corner and in the dead center.

We can't change the bars because that would stop EVERYONE from using their full range of movement.

[gutted]

Honestly Doc, i wouldn't put much stock into these posts from day 1 with the patch. Give it a day or two before you get "disapointed"

[dkamerad]

I was able to get more comfortable with this sort of curve on my mapping

The lower one is what I'd ideally use but I don't have the knowhow to chop max axis input down to 85% input in game. I seriously doubt I'd ever use that top/bottom 15% in game now, not without flopping out or blacking out depending on speed.

[Tigger6]

Ok, I flew 109s for an hour or two. Much more stable in flat turning, however the trim messes me up, I need to re-learn how to trim in dogfight. Especially for scissors and offloaded shots.

[oyaji]

So now all is right with the world again? What a difference a day can make!

Enigma, sorry it took me so long to get defragged last night. I had to patch twice, which meant I had to defrag twice, and I got tired of waiting and went to bed. I did just fly the 109E1 and managed to evade multiple planes at Gilze and to shoot down a Spitfire9 with it. You asked for my opinion, so here it is: I think that plane is a lot easier to fly than it was the day before. It is more stable now, even sluggish. But I found my elevator trim wheel all but unusable. If I flew 109s regularly I would definately spend time creating myself a solution for that problem. I'll go fly one with the 109G6 in a little while...

Hope you guys have figured out how to have fun with it now. The sky isn't falling after all, is it?

Edited December 9, 2010 by oyaji

[gutted]

I'm still flopping around too much.

I think its a combination of the trim being off, and cross control when slow.

For the record. I never used any trim tricks to turn the 109.

Edited December 9, 2010 by gutted

[DOC]

Cross control "flop" was never going to go away with this change. If that's an expectation no wonder you are pissed. All the change does is allow you to use more stick to control the elevator, and to "ride" the edge of stall in a turn (or top of a slow loop) with more control and confidence. That's it. It just makes the elevator (pitch) easier to manage. Nothing else. You'll recover from departure easier, but departure isn't eliminated. Flop is just departure, you stalled the wing. Aileron input while pitched up elevator is always going to be a bad move. It was before and it still is now. It's just not as fatal now as it used to be.

If you aren't following the joystick settings reccomendations that have been made clear during testing ... and adding the missing "neutral trim" already discussed then your experience is going to be bad, but that's irrelevant because it's like deliberately setting your plan up wrong with way too much trim and then expecting it to fly ok.

Another thing I found was that pilots are now flying SLOWER than they could hold onto previously because it's easier to handle on the edge. That means they are flopping (stalling) out of turns they couldn't even do before, and not realizing it. If they stopped turning at the point they could previously hold onto before the changes, they wouldn't be flopping. They also wouldn't still be turning anymore, whereas now they can hold onto it and keep going.

BTW, I rammed the neutral trim state adjustment through dev. this morning so even though it isn't going through a closed beta week or so like changes always should ... it will still be in the next live patch. So that's one more way to hose yourself that is going to be removed.

PS: "you" isn't you, it's everyone to whom it applies

[gutted]

No i never expected cross control to go away.

I think my problem is previously i knew exactly where the edge was. Right now im still trying to find it. Soimetimes i'm over it and dont realize it and cross control into a flop

Edited December 9, 2010 by gutted

[Tigger6]

No i never expected cross control to go away.

I think my problem is previously i knew exactly where the edge was. Right now im still trying to find it. Soimetimes i'm over it and dont realize it and cross control into a flop

Yeah, this. I always turn with the trim and joystick at the same time somehow. This change seems to make this no longer necessary, which is of course good in the long term, but locally makes life a bit hard.

[alexande]

I wholly approve of this post for its wild crying and then its calm reasonable retractions. thumbs up.

[oyaji]

So I also just logged a sortie with the G6 and the F4. Again, my impression is that they are now forgiving to the point of sluggishness, but the trim wheels of both functioned just fine for me (unlike the E1's). I thought all 3 109s (I have yet to fly the E4 and the F2) easier to fly now than they were before. Keep in mind that I have very little stick time in 109s, but that I do occasionally fly them on the training server and did fly 3 sorties in the 109E1 the day before yesterday, so I did have fresh experience for this comparison.

I am certain that any change in stick calibration proves unwelcome to anyone well-familiar with any planes in the game, but I'd guess that 2 weeks to a month of experience will familiarise users with the changes. Case in point was v1.31, which didn't change calibrations from within the game, but instead as I understand it changed the way controllers interface with Windows (that being a Windows change - thanks fer nuttin', Bill). I (and many other pilots in the game on both sides) hated the new feel, but after about 2 weeks became accustomed to it.

PS - DOC, would you consider making similar changes to the Dewoitine and the P-38? How about also changing the Spitfire rudder back to something like it was before the patch that altered the 109's rudder response to make it more stable? Particularly unwelcome was the Spitfire modification - it needed no more stability added. Taking away rudder response from the Spitfire's already-weak rudder was never asked-for nor well-received.

Edited December 10, 2010 by oyaji

[Raus]

So I also just logged a sortie with the G6 and the F4. Again' date=' my impression is that they are now forgiving to the point of sluggishness, but the trim wheels of both functioned just fine for me (unlike the E1's). I thought all 3 109s (I have yet to fly the E4 and the F2) easier to fly now than they were before. Keep in mind that I have very little stick time in 109s, but that I do occasionally fly them on the training server and did fly 3 sorties in the 109E1 the day before yesterday, so I did have fresh experience for this comparison.[/quote']

Thanks! Your lack of experience in 109s is duly noted.

[dkamerad]

*note, I am at the default settings*

Night 2:

I see what this fix was put in for, I notice the better stability in flat turns.

It feels roughly like I'm able to put my gunsight where I want it better at a distance.

I know this fix wasn't put in place to fix the flop. HOWEVER. It feels like the 109s I've been flying (F4 and G6) flop more suddenly and with little of the telltale signs.

If anything it feels like the 109s have become more prone to flop, and personally I haven't felt any quicker recovery. It's not a huge deal when on the offensive. On the other hand any flop when on the defensive is almost certainly fatal unless the EA completely blows it.

I appreciate the effort, but when the chips are down and I've got a spit so tight on my 6 he can see my @#! pucker, I'd take the old mapping.

[veruca]

No i never expected cross control to go away.

I think my problem is previously i knew exactly where the edge was. Right now im still trying to find it. Soimetimes i'm over it and dont realize it and cross control into a flop

This is exactly the problem. I still contend that there is something not right with the new flight model adjustments, we're all just going to have to get used to it.

Edit: DK is right, If you heard your slots pop you'd better start easing off, now if your slot pop you're flopping and you might as well be hanging from a string for everyone to shoot at. Pinata09.

Edited December 10, 2010 by veruca

[oyaji]

Thanks! Your lack of experience in 109s is duly noted.

I was asked for my opinion so I gave it, and qualified it with my lack of experience in that plane. You'll also note that I mentioned that is actually an advantage, because I have don't have to unlearn anything - I have few expectations of how it should fly.

N00bies will benefit from the changes, in my opinion. Since the change was aimed at them, it seems to me (and others here) that that goal has been met. Seems like you'll just have to "adapt and overcome". I told you I expect that to take 2 to 4 weeks, since that is how long it takes me to get used to calibration changes. Taking into account that you probably consider yourself a better pilot than I am, you can probably achieve that refamiliarisation in even less time.

Good luck with that.

Edited December 10, 2010 by oyaji

[Raus]

BTW, I just found the edge with the G6. Which is huge news for me because I had never found it before. I always used to be either in control or departed. Now I had a rare 1 v 1 with a spit9 who had initial energy on me and we took it vertical. I was able to ride the edge and control the engagement, eventually KTFO. I was pleasantly surprised and actually smiling as the fight unfolded instead of grimacing as usual knife fighting in a G6, knowing that an unexpected flop would end the fight for me.

[Raus]

I was asked for my opinion so I gave it, and qualified it with my lack of experience in that plane. You'll also note that I mentioned that is actually an advantage, because I have don't have to unlearn anything - I have few expectations of how it should fly.

N00bies will benefit from the changes, in my opinion. Since the change was aimed at them, it seems to me (and others here) that that goal has been met. Seems like you'll just have to "adapt and overcome". I told you I expect that to take 2 to 4 weeks, since that is how long it takes me to get used to calibration changes. Taking into account that you probably consider yourself a better pilot than I am, you can probably achieve that refamiliarisation in even less time.

Good luck with that.

I'm glad you have an opinion on flying the 109.

[gutted]

How about also changing the Spitfire rudder back to something like it was before the patch that altered the 109's rudder response to make it more stable?

I'd like my old 109 rudder back as well. Could you guys make the "dampening" you added to it an option. I absolutely hate it (still). Something is very wrong when you have to set both the rudder control AND the rudder trim to the same axis to get any decent response out of it at combat speeds.

Edited December 10, 2010 by gutted

[gutted]

gurgle

Edited December 10, 2010 by gutted

[DOC]

No aircraft file work was done or patched between .5 beta and live release, I suspect it's your set-up because I have nothing else to go on. Yeah, this has been checked 3 times so I'm not just tossing an opinion out there.

After tomorrows patch restoring the neutral trim point to level at max. cruise speed the only thing left for anyone that can't figure this out is to make sure they set all joysticks for each plane they can't handle to default, and work from there. Several players today told me although they used to trim aggressively during manoeuvres in a dogfight, they stopped just to see what happened, and found they could handle the tight stuff better without doing all that than they used to when they did do all that previously. I am not surprised if some relearning is required (I expect it) but I also beleive that those willing to not fight it, and do it, will be MORE effective after they do that adjusting. Being stubborn and hanging onto "how I used to do it" isn't going to work, I knew that before I even started this work.

Just personally, I never had so much success dogfighting Spitfires before today on the live server. The 109s are not performing better (climb/speed/turn rates) but they make ME perform better, and I have 100% standard untouched config. files (like all noobs do) and do not trim in a fight, although I will use flaps when really slow and pitching up elevator into the move.

I do set my down trim in the 109s as I posted earlier needs to be done (5 clicks down in the E1, 4 clicks down in the E4, 7 clicks down in F2, F4 and G6) before take off. After the patch on Friday, this will no longer be required.

PS: for Bell pilots. You need to add 2 clicks UP trim before take off to put the neutral point where it should be. After Friday patch, this will not be required either. Default stick conig (explained earlier) too of course. Fw190 pilots need 2 clicks down until Friday.