109 Engine overheat

[Devildrivr]

Is it possible to get the 109 overheat issue fixed next patch?  It is my understanding that the engine overheat was only common to the early model 109 a/c, not the later model a/c.  It is quite frustrating to have to pull out of the fight to go cool the engine off for 10 min.  I do not believe there are any other a/c in the game that have similar overheat issues, but i am not sure, regardless, if this overheat issue is not historically accurate on later model 109s, please get rid of it.

 

Thanks

Edited May 26, 2021 by devildrivr
spelling

[Kidd27]

All single engine models overheat. Axis and Aliied. 2 engine ACs do not

Dont use WEP and she wont overheat unless you get hit in the engine

Edited May 27, 2021 by Kidd27

[Devildrivr]

1 hour ago, Kidd27 said:

All single engine models overheat. Axis and Aliied. 2 engine ACs do not

Dont use WEP and she wont overheat unless you get hit in the engine

I have flown both versions of the 190 and have never had an overheat issue flying this a/c max, max, wep on, even running her out of gas, so not buying that every single engine a/c in game will overheat.  I will reconfirm, but pretty certain the 109/ later models will overheat without wep on.

[Devildrivr]

Motor seized after 40+ min flying time below 2k.  109G tested on a nice sunny afternoon with throttle max, prop max with wep off, no ea engaged/no damage to a/c.  Started loosing power after 30+ min and then could no longer sustain airspeed to stay aloft. 40+min flying time.  Anyone have similar results with non 109 a/c, please respond with details,  I get the engine management is crucial for early model 109 a/c if this is a historical fact for overheat for early models, with that said, finding it hard to believe that the 109 was plagued with this issue for all variants throughout the war.

Realism is nice to have in a game/war flight sim, but when it affects 90% of one sides fighter a/c or 100% if you take the tears with the 190 out of the equation, makes the game very lop sided for longer air to air battles. Perhaps adding known shortcomings that the P38 had, as its allison engine was prown to throwing rods, swallowing valves and fouling plugs not to mention their intercoolers often ruptured under sustained high boost and turbocharger regulators freezing causing catastrophic failures, all to often i see a P38 out speed and pace 109/190s while smoking 2 or more colors from the engine after being hit multiple times.

[madrebel]

max/max no wep is analogous to what the Germans called Steig U Kampleistung IE 1.3 aTa and 2600 RPM, this was in fact a 30 minute power setting. Start und Notleistung which in game is max/max/wep and 1.42 aTa @2800 RPM is a 5 minute power setting.

Later, with the MW-50, the time increased to 10 minute applications of of 2800 RPM @ 1.8 aTa and the MW50 tank held enough for 3 10M runs.

once you're above max altitude (around 7.5km), max/max no wep can be run until you run out of fuel.

Edited May 28, 2021 by madrebel

[vanapo]

How long can the SpitV be run at max/max/wep without losing its engine? Anybody did some testing? I am pretty sure you weren't ably to fly it with throttle fully open for 2 hours irl without killing the engine...

[madrebel]

I haven't tested in game for a long time. From the Spit Va, Vb, and Vc manual covering the Merlin 45-55m though.

takeoff power (till 1K')

3000 RPM and 12lbs boost

Max climbing power 1hr limit

2850 RPM 9lbs boost

max rich continuous power

2650 rpm and 7lbs boost

max lean continuous power

2650 rpm and 4lbs boost

combat power 5 minutes

3000 rpm at +16 or +18lbs boost.

Not sure why the two boost settings, possibly for low/high gear or perhaps the earlier merlins vs the later merlins. that combat setting would be analogous to the in game max/max/wep with max/max being the 1 hour limit. *edit* these limits are similar on other merlins as well almost identical on the merlin6x series as an example. for earlier merlins the max climb output was only a 30m rating and the max combat was sometimes rated at 9lbs for 5 mins or 12lbs for 3 minutes.

it should be noted that the realistic settings unless specifically stated were for a warm engine. Meaning, once you used the climb power in say a spitV you'd get to 1K feet and switch to max climb power. Once at whatever altitude you wanted, you'd switch to one of the two continuous settings and go about your mission. once contact was made, then you still had the combat power rating. Meaning, with an already warm engine and oil/coolant temps associated with say max continuous, you could still go into combat power for 5 minutes at which point it was less about time and more about watching the temp gauges. once you hit X for coolant and or oil temp you needed to back off. the 5 minute rating was a ballpark. in a 109 as an example you could go max/max/wep and over ride your radiator settings an run fully closed for max speed, you could do this for a minute or so max, or, you could go fully open and get 7 minutes or more.

the in game thermal system ... i mean it is very old at this point and we lack the granularity of control over the radiators. that said, the system is good enough that it translates the proper need to pay attention to your temps. you cant just firewall the throttle and forget about it. some planes in game are pretty badly broken though. the 190 and H75 come to mind.

Edited June 9, 2021 by madrebel

[Devildrivr]

Any update?   anyone had a chance to varrify if in fact the 109 e1 early model engine overheat issue was inadvertently carried over to later model 109's which does seem to be the case here.

 

 Historynet, on why the p-38 flunked in Europe!  but not in this game, she is  top dog!    The P-38 performed usefully but suffered from a number of problems. Its Allison engines consistently threw rods, swallowed valves and fouled plugs, while their intercoolers often ruptured under sustained high boost and turbocharger regulators froze,

Not in this game!   only Axis 109's need to be managed accordingly with the engine overheat that plagues all variants in game, as i believe the later models in this game all backstrapped off of the early e1 model that actually had an over heat issue. I would like to see this fixed/investigated further ASAP.  or,, perhaps implement some of the P 38 issues mentioned above to equalize the air war a bit.  One side shouldn't be held to engine issues when the other side ( P-38) gets a free pass on an unrealistic game play when comparing combat between the 2

Edited August 29, 2021 by devildrivr

[bmw]

From what I remember back when I used to fly a long time ago we never ran max/max at all times due to the ovrheating.  It was something like max 1.0 or something like that until we got into a fight.  Most of the times you will not be engaging at 7500K so engine mgt was a key component. After a fight sometines i would forget I was still on max/max........and well.........

[madrebel]

23 hours ago, devildrivr said:

Any update?   anyone had a chance to varrify if in fact the 109 e1 early model engine overheat issue was inadvertently carried over to later model 109's which does seem to be the case here.

 

 Historynet, on why the p-38 flunked in Europe!  but not in this game, she is  top dog!    The P-38 performed usefully but suffered from a number of problems. Its Allison engines consistently threw rods, swallowed valves and fouled plugs, while their intercoolers often ruptured under sustained high boost and turbocharger regulators froze,

Not in this game!   only Axis 109's need to be managed accordingly with the engine overheat that plagues all variants in game, as i believe the later models in this game all backstrapped off of the early e1 model that actually had an over heat issue. I would like to see this fixed/investigated further ASAP.  or,, perhaps implement some of the P 38 issues mentioned above to equalize the air war a bit.  One side shouldn't be held to engine issues when the other side ( P-38) gets a free pass on an unrealistic game play when comparing combat between the 2

Most planes in game overheat. Some are really bad in that they either over heat too quickly (H75) or are next to imposible to overheat (190).

you've completely glossed over the technical facts I posted above when all you need to do is fly the 109 in game using power settings and durations similar to real life and you'd be fine. Instead, you'd rather come to the forums and complain that your 109 over heats at some point after you've thrown the throttle wide open and hit the wep button. apparently in your mind you should spawn, start the engine, then max/max/wep forever or else ... what ... CRS is bias?

you try to point out the P38's lack of issues in game vs historic yet you fail to consider the lengthy list of issues the DB601 and DB605 had. i could list those for you if you like suffice it to say the DB605 killed Marseille not the Allies.

 

In short, there is no problem here with the 109. There are other planes that should be fixed, notably the 190. learn to play, buy more rams, and stfu the rats have other things to fix that are FAR more important. like, the P38s performance, the 109G2s performance, the D520s absolutely awful drag issues ... I can go on.

 

please close this thread as there is nothing to fix.

Edited August 30, 2021 by madrebel

[greyman]

On 6/9/2021 at 4:21 PM, madrebel said:

combat power 5 minutes
3000 rpm at +16 or +18lbs boost.

Not sure why the two boost settings, possibly for low/high gear or perhaps the earlier merlins vs the later merlins.

The 45 to 55 series were only one gear. The higher +18 boost was for the 'M' type engines (eg: Merlin 55M). These were cropped-impellor variants for increased low-altitude performance (at the cost of performance at higher altitudes). Mid '43.

[vanapo]

I think, the real question is not if one plane's engine did in fact overheat rather quickly.

I think the real question is, why do we have so many engines in game that run max/max/WEP without overheating at all on one side, and we got others which go from normal running temp to destruction temp in less than 10 minutes.

If we want to go somewhat light on the simulation aspect (which we seem to do with a lot of planes) why do other planes have very realistic restrictions on how long their engines can perform at max?

[madrebel]

On 9/4/2021 at 4:04 PM, vanapo said:

I think, the real question is not if one plane's engine did in fact overheat rather quickly.

I think the real question is, why do we have so many engines in game that run max/max/WEP without overheating at all on one side, and we got others which go from normal running temp to destruction temp in less than 10 minutes.

If we want to go somewhat light on the simulation aspect (which we seem to do with a lot of planes) why do other planes have very realistic restrictions on how long their engines can perform at max?

I think the answer to this is most of the 'good' (as in close to historical) examples in game are older. the spitfires, 109s, etc were made at a time when CRS had a lot more staff and dedicated (to some extent) air modelers. all of the suspect models are newer, or rather, the changes that never felt right came about well after the initial staff cuts.

109 flop, p38's strange performance, d520's drag never really feeling correct, spit's anemic rudder authority etc etc.