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Grenade Throwing Distance.


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trevor8

Logged in a while ago and was playing around. One thing I immediately noticed is grenade throwing distance. Most of the Americans at least grew up playing baseball. During my time in the army I could throw a grenade at least double or triple what I saw the troop in game able to throw. I also did not see the grenade roll or bounce. Maybe I am doing it wrong in game. Also the BAR don't have a deployed position yet? 

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XOOM
On 7/4/2021 at 3:10 AM, trevor8 said:

Logged in a while ago and was playing around. One thing I immediately noticed is grenade throwing distance. Most of the Americans at least grew up playing baseball. During my time in the army I could throw a grenade at least double or triple what I saw the troop in game able to throw. I also did not see the grenade roll or bounce. Maybe I am doing it wrong in game. Also the BAR don't have a deployed position yet? 

Pressing and holding the LMB helps extend the range. I do feel it might still be a bit "heavy" yet. 

BAR presently does not have that capability, I'll point these out to Stefan and get his thoughts.

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madrebel
18 hours ago, XOOM said:

Pressing and holding the LMB helps extend the range. I do feel it might still be a bit "heavy" yet. 

BAR presently does not have that capability, I'll point these out to Stefan and get his thoughts.

Would be nice if this system gave some sort of visual 'estimate' as to where the grenade is going to go too.

IRL, if I pop my head over top of cover and I see the bad guys roughly 20 yards over there, with little more than sight alone I'm going to throw a grenade that will land 'close'. I don't need to charge up my throw, I don't need to guess, I just know how hard I need to throw and that is that.

Games lack muscle memory and a host of feedback loops that the brain/body have IRL. usually the argument is "i dont want 'fake' cross hairs or indicators cause its more realistic without them" but then we get wonky/clunky systems like this that just never feel right.

Example, in game my rifleman has his back to the wall and a window is open to my left and I need to put a grenade in said window. You realize how trivial this would be IRL vs in game?

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jwilly

In real life you'd even cook it for two seconds. And, you could consciously choose whether to drop it over the window ledge, or throw it into the room so it'd bounce off the far wall.

Crosshairs wouldn't do either of those...so that approach isn't a too-easy solution, it's a not-good-enough one.

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madrebel
22 minutes ago, jwilly said:

 

Crosshairs wouldn't do either of those...so that approach isn't a too-easy solution, it's a not-good-enough one.

agreed my point was anything 'visual', like crosshairs, is instantly crapped on in this community from the die hard (fake) realism crowd when in fact visual systems can work far more realistically than the (fake) realism we currently have in some places.

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1 hour ago, madrebel said:

Would be nice if this system gave some sort of visual 'estimate' as to where the grenade is going to go too.

IRL, if I pop my head over top of cover and I see the bad guys roughly 20 yards over there, with little more than sight alone I'm going to throw a grenade that will land 'close'. I don't need to charge up my throw, I don't need to guess, I just know how hard I need to throw and that is that.

Games lack muscle memory and a host of feedback loops that the brain/body have IRL. usually the argument is "i dont want 'fake' cross hairs or indicators cause its more realistic without them" but then we get wonky/clunky systems like this that just never feel right.

Example, in game my rifleman has his back to the wall and a window is open to my left and I need to put a grenade in said window. You realize how trivial this would be IRL vs in game?

This sounds very Rapid Assault like... very anti-realism. Don't like it. Maybe we could do something with the hands to give it some sort of depth in the measurement but no gimmicky visual indicators on the screen.

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jwilly

In real life, the more rocks or baseballs or hand grenades you throw, the more accurate you get with them.

And, you throw where you're looking. That's fundamental...the brain figures out what the muscles need to do based on the target indicated by the eyes, and experience.

What if an infantry character had a stat for number of grenades thrown since last death, and a way of indicating where he wants the grenade to land, before roll/bounce; and the more grenades he's thrown the more accurate he becomes?

I'm thinking a transparent colored ellipse on screen, centered where he's looking when he throws. The ellipse gets bigger as the throw distance increases, and smaller with experience. The grenade lands at a random location in that ellipse, then rolls/bounces depending on terrain.

As the infantryman in grenade mode looks at an obstacle he can't see through, and sweeps his vision upward slightly to look at an increasing-distance aim point, the ellipse moves away from him until it disappears behind the obstacle. His throw automatically arches upward...the grenade is a ballistic object...and if the ellipse is behind a wall or other cover, the grenade will land in that ellipse...unless it hits something on the way. It's up to the thrower to determine if his ballistic throw-path will hit something before it gets to the target.

Throws are most accurate when standing. Any other position...particularly prone...has less maximum range and less accuracy.

At night, when infantry shouldn't be able to see worth a darn, the ellipses should become very large.

Maybe a seperate throw-mode could provide for short range lobs...just over a wall, sidearm through a window without exposing one's body, standing alongside a tank or APC/truck and tossing a grenade or other object onto the engine deck or into the crew/troop compartment.

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trevor8
Posted (edited)

IIRC its been historically documented especially among the American units, the old HS baseball pitcher was a dead shot with the hand grenades. There is a reason the US made them shaped like a baseball. 

 

 

Edited by trevor8
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On 7/4/2021 at 5:10 AM, trevor8 said:

Logged in a while ago and was playing around. One thing I immediately noticed is grenade throwing distance. Most of the Americans at least grew up playing baseball. During my time in the army I could throw a grenade at least double or triple what I saw the troop in game able to throw. I also did not see the grenade roll or bounce. Maybe I am doing it wrong in game. Also the BAR don't have a deployed position yet? 

I did some quick testing and I was getting about 40 metres (45 yards).

re: the US Army Field Manual on Grenades (1942) ...

35 yards is considered a good range after the first 100 grenades have been thrown at an average rate of 30 to 40 grenades a day for 3 or more days. A 50-yard range is above average.

This agrees fairly well with British grenade testing, where the average max. range throw of the No.36 grenade (thrown 'overarm' manner) was 35 yards, and the average max. range of the No.70 grenade (thrown 'cricket ball' manner) was 45 yards.

British No.36 -- 1.7 lb
British No.70 -- 1.0 lb
US Mk.II -- 1.25 lb
Modern M67 -- 0.9 lb

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On 7/28/2021 at 5:06 AM, greyman said:

I did some quick testing and I was getting about 40 metres (45 yards).

re: the US Army Field Manual on Grenades (1942) ...

35 yards is considered a good range after the first 100 grenades have been thrown at an average rate of 30 to 40 grenades a day for 3 or more days. A 50-yard range is above average.

This agrees fairly well with British grenade testing, where the average max. range throw of the No.36 grenade (thrown 'overarm' manner) was 35 yards, and the average max. range of the No.70 grenade (thrown 'cricket ball' manner) was 45 yards.

British No.36 -- 1.7 lb
British No.70 -- 1.0 lb
US Mk.II -- 1.25 lb
Modern M67 -- 0.9 lb

Yeah that sounds about right. 45 yards would be a hell of a throw. Could be my observed distance on the screen looked shorter than it was. 

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