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P4G and P4h


stankyus
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My understanding is that both have 10mm top armor. Late in posting this sort of but did mention it. This last Sunday I had the opportunity twice to jump down on top of both versions in a extended time period with a BAR as in multiple respawns. I got on top of the several times of the same tanks in the VEH I was methodical last Sunday. The rear deck, I was getting puncture holes and white smoke over the engine deck, over the driver, gunner, and commander positions, no dice on kills,, go to the side.., I’m getting holes, all the top armor is 10mm. If I can smoke the engine but not kill a driver, something like 11 mags with no holes, move to the side… holes. What is the deal? If there is extra armor here that has not been fixed from earlier it would explain a lot about my h2D attacks from a very steep angle on the turret top, from the flanks, 20mm is pretty easy, 98% of my h2d kills are flank. From the top, the thinnest armor is almost impossible. I have been trying the top down attack and observing with the h2d. There has to be a connection. This is not in a vacuum, it’s an observation brought to me. 

Edited by stankyus
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a) its possible that the graphics (visual damage model) may or may not be broken on some parts of vehicles (wouldn't be the 1st time)

b) its possible that something else is going on

c) what kind of damage was being received by the vehicle operator?

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2 to 3 mAgs between grates centerline toward rear of top deck. If engine is running it will blow it ( have a pic)

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WOW-- JUST SIMPLY WOW,   ALLIED post something wrong with axis armour, and BAMMMM 6 hours later, it is ticketed and being fixed. HEY, axis tiger is made of paper. (deaf ears) and (Blind)

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Wasn't there a "fix" to make Axis tanks less vulnerable to 50 BMG from air? (long time ago)

If so, it make sens that said fix will also stop .30 cal AP.

Edited by atgman
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I'm all for historical accuracy, but IMHO I think CRS needs to think about this very carefully, if the 4gs go back to 10mm top armor there will be massive pains on the axis side.  The days of a single 50cal or 20mm armed plane wiping out an amored attack will be back.

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If you have a report to file on any vehicle it will get the same attention. 

Re the Tiger, it has been gone over with a fine comb again and again with no issues detected. The hitmap, its components and their associated values all check out.

27 minutes ago, halsey said:

I'm all for historical accuracy, but IMHO I think CRS needs to think about this very carefully, if the 4gs go back to 10mm top armor there will be massive pains on the axis side.  The days of a single 50cal or 20mm armed plane wiping out an amored attack will be back.

The issue is that double standards are in effect. 

41 minutes ago, delems said:

I know you all just doing your job to make the game better; but wow, the optics again so bad :(

Next time I’ll make sure to ignore a report for a suitably long time before responding.

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iceweiner
1 hour ago, xcas said:

WOW-- JUST SIMPLY WOW,   ALLIED post something wrong with axis armour, and BAMMMM 6 hours later, it is ticketed and being fixed. HEY, axis tiger is made of paper. (deaf ears) and (Blind)

Tiger gets one shotted by A2 frontally... They don't fix that.

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  stankyus had a very detailed, specific and repeatable example, that could be tested quickly and immediately.

This type of post usually gets attention quickly.

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*** stankyus had a very detailed, specific and repeatable example, that could be tested quickly and immediately.

I've been posting about Enter World bug for going on 10 years now.

Repeatable, easily tested, everyone gets it.........

I've even posted a solution prolly 100 times.

 

How many years ago did Xoom say the 88 would be great again?  Even feared?

Edited by delems
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3 hours ago, xcas said:

WOW-- JUST SIMPLY WOW,   ALLIED post something wrong with axis armour, and BAMMMM 6 hours later, it is ticketed and being fixed. HEY, axis tiger is made of paper. (deaf ears) and (Blind)

Have you posted how to replicate it, situations under which it happened, basic conditions that can be tested to see whats going on under the hood?   You know the stuff that's in this post, so that QA doesn't have to guess what happened or how. 

In this post, the situation was clearly defined,  steps to replicate were included, so it was able to be quickly looked at and determined to have something wrong.  No one had to spend any time randomly guessing how to reproduce.

'Tiger is paper' is a pretty general description, with no clearly defined conditions or sequence of events to reproduce.  SO that leaves looking at the underlying models, and if they check out, well.. sorry.  

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1 hour ago, delems said:

I've been posting about Enter World bug for going on 10 years now.

You have indeed.  And you have been told repeatedly that your basic assertations around it are not accurate (though spawn delay does make it more visible and likely to occur).  The issue is more complex than your oft stated theory, and your proposed solution will not affect the enter world bug in any way.    

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1 hour ago, iceweiner said:

Tiger gets one shotted by A2 frontally... They don't fix that.

The M4A2, or the M5A2 ?

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3 hours ago, atgman said:

Wasn't there a "fix" to make Axis tanks less vulnerable to 50 BMG from air? (long time ago)

If so, it make sens that said fix will also stop .30 cal AP.

I believe that was the case, and, may I say, that it was entirely warranted, as kills were being achieved through extremely unrealistic flight profiles to achieve the penetration required, ie firing in the vertical downwards portion of a loop pulling out mere feet from the ground. Much like the pirouetting LMG, that  sort of stuff needs to be designed out, even if it means slightly cooking the books with the roof armour. There are simply far FAR too many fighters armed with 20mm cannon/0.50 cals which can kill armour, combined with no fear of death = the ruination of the ground game. IIRC - at my memory may be at fault here - the roof armour of the pzIV was bumped from 10mm to 13mm, and there was a later adjustment to get rid of .50cal AP???

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:32 PM, delems said:

And you are wrong.

I've played nearly every day for 10 years, I know exactly when it happens and under what times.

I also know exactly one way to solve it.

You are absolutely completely wrong -- but still refuse to admit it.

If you want to disprove me, you can do it in 30 seconds;  but you won't - because you can't.

Speak for yourself, I have complete trust in the veracity of what the Rats do say, and always have. I do not, however, always agree with what they do, but that is a very different "fault". I think you probably need to wind your neck in a bit old chap. If either side were truly to distrust CRS, then both sides are the loser, so what on earth would be the point of their not being straight with us? Personally, I've never known any RAT from CRS1 or 2 to be less than straight with the player-base, either to an individual or indeed any group of players. Not one single solitary instance in 20 odd years. 

They may choose not to answer one, but that is a very different affair, usually impelled by one using hyperbole and wild emotional or downright silly language/threats etc.....

If they're not listening to you, the answer is to dial back the shrill and largely baseless quality of your posts when the map moves eastwards. 

Edited by jwilly
TOS issue in quote. Edited.
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1 hour ago, B2K said:

In this post, the situation was clearly defined,  steps to replicate were included, so it was able to be quickly looked at and determined to have something wrong.  No one had to spend any time randomly guessing how to reproduc

Hmm

STU can't be tracked from the front with pak36 or pnz 3h  , is not enough detail ?

You needed what exactly to make you guys look at it ? Apparently it was videos . Cause my countless posts about exactly that issue were ignored till I finally posted a video , which in earlier years I had not the chance to do so cause no 2 accounts .

You guys have testers right? 

Again what detail did I miss ?

I get it if I report a player that doesn't  die in his Armor when shot into the same spot where everybody else dies , hard to replicate that ,I doubt I can ask the guy to just let me test on him , that's why doing a . Report on stuff like that is rather pointless,  but the before mentioned is actually pretty clear cut and dry. Expect it took a few years while other stuff gets looked at right away.

You know it's actually a pretty nifty thing when you can track a enemy tank way before he gets into combat range or close to town , and because a lot of engagements are frontal yes YES it would be great if that would get the same fast response as Allied issues being posted. Again OPTICS  , and because the 3h comes in with the Stuart yes it should have been fixed long time ago.

Edited by Dre21
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20 minutes ago, Dre21 said:

Hmm

STU can't be tracked from the front with pak36 or pnz 3h  , is not enough detail ?

You needed what exactly to make you guys look at it ? Apparently it was videos . Cause my countless posts about exactly that issue were ignored till u finally posted a video , which in earlier years I had not the chance to do so cause no 2 accounts .

You guys have testers right? 

Again what detail did I miss ?

I get it if I report a player that doesn't  die in his Armor when shot into the same spot where everybody else dies , hard to replicate that ,I doubt I can ask the guy to just let me test on him , that's why doing a . Report on stuff like that is rather pointless,  but the before mentioned is actually pretty clear cut and dry. Expect it took a few years while other stuff gets looked at right away.

You know it's actually a pretty nifty thing when you can track a enemy tank way before he gets into combat range or close to town , and because a lot of engagements are frontal yes YES it would be great if that would get the same fast response as Allied issues being posted. Again OPTICS  , and because the 3h comes in with the Stuart yes it should have been fixed long time ago.

.bug goes to the testing team directly.

.report goes to the GM's.  Then at some point may get relayed to the testing team (or not).

Videos (or descriptive scenarios with repeatable steps) help, otherwise what ends up (usually) happening is that tester a spawns a STU, then grabs the ATG and guesses at all the pertinent details, and it works...

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iceweiner
1 hour ago, B2K said:

The M4A2, or the M5A2 ?

M4A2

M4A2 shouldn't take a Tiger out frontally, and it does in this game. I've had my Tiger one shotted, gun disabled, multiple times by an A2 frontally. Every time I face an A2, my shots go thru the tank. I should be easily flaming it from the front, but it doesn't. 

Edited by iceweiner
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4 hours ago, iceweiner said:

Tiger gets one shotted by A2 frontally... They don't fix that.

And historically if you knew where to hit it at x range frontally you could've done it. Myth vs reality is a real bear some times

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2 hours ago, delems said:

So, does this mean the BAR can take out the IVG/IVH now?

I personally had no luck on the 4g. However I succeeded in blowing engine on 4h. Bar penetration irl was a little over 13mm. Or there abouts. Pz 3 , stubs and all 4 series had less than 10mm so in reality, although irl it may never have been tried, perfectly theasable at a flat shot

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14 minutes ago, daokoth1 said:

And historically if you knew where to hit it at x range frontally you could've done it. Myth vs reality is a real bear some times

It seems to me that the predominant problem with the Tiger is terrain related. It isn't. by and large, operated in terrain where it can be considered safe from sappers/PIATs etc, due to colliderless hedges, it's easily flanked, and can be seen over hedgerows, and the general tank v tank engagement ranges are under 750m, at which range, neither the optics, guns reach and lethality, nor the armour, is of much use to the better allied weapons, from the 6pdr upwards. In other words our terrain greatly pulls the Tiger's teeth, so to speak, in flat terrain. In hillier terrain, where the engagement ranges are 1500m plus, then it can do some real damage. The problem is the rest of the time, it's more of a handicap than an advantage, doubly so because the vanilla axis TOE's for garrisons and armoured Bde's mean there's a penalty in more ordinary tanks such as the IVH, because the Tiger's are so relatively expensive. The axis need more cheap TD's, and the same "3 Korps" (countries in effect) arrangement as the allies have. 

Edited by fidd
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*** It seems to me that the predominant problem with the Tiger is terrain related. 

Uhm, no.

It is that the frontal armor should not be penetrated in most cases.

And the 88mm gun should shred nearly anything it hits.

That is the problem.......

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undercova
1 minute ago, delems said:

*** It seems to me that the predominant problem with the Tiger is terrain related. 

Uhm, no.

It is that the frontal armor should not be penetrated in most cases.

And the 88mm gun should shred nearly anything it hits.

That is the problem.......

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/

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