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DM or HE broken.


Mosizlak
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9 hours ago, bogol said:

So, @BMBM I guess that is normal behavior for 4 bofor rounds to the nose of that FW and him flying away ? 

Hard to tell exactly where those shots landed without looking at logs. Could be hits to prop blade, tip of horizontal stab, anything. There’s no guarantee that every hit was smack bang in the engine just going by the hit sprites.

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I agree that it looks fishy and I too would be incredulous, but there’s no way of knowing without looking at the logs. Interviewing the FW driver would be nice too.

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This is an off topic question @BMBM

I’ve been flying recently, especially using the Stuka, and I’ve been bombing Sherman’s/M10s, and I have been bombing them directly, but for some reason, majority of the time I’ve gotten no hits on the tanks when I saw my bomb directly land on the tank. Is there something going on with the bombing in this game to where it doesn’t show hits on a tank? Because I should be easily blowing these tanks up if my 250kg bomb lands directly on them. Happened today too at Mouzon; an A2 was stationary, and I bombed it directly, and didn’t receive a hit, nor did the tank blow up

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On 11/26/2021 at 7:07 PM, Mosizlak said:

This is just one sortie from today, about 10 minutes ago. 

The Boston took 4x40mm, then got the hell shot out of it by a 190, then the 190 got exploded by a hurricane in 1 burst lol. 

The hawk took 2x40mm, then flew off to dogfight some LW plane. He ended up strafing the LW on the ground...

Hurricane in last clip took 3x40mm. 1 to the nose, 2 to the guts. Nothing broke off, got a pilot kill LOL. 

Not recording anymore vids, because the all look like this sortie. All of them. 

I agree with everyone else, the damage model for planes is whacked up, pretty badly. 

Your videos, sicknesses video, and other videos in the past have pointed out this problem many times.

Next time I am in game on my paid main account I'll record some AA videos clips to add further documentation and evidence. It won't take long since nearly every plane I shoot as well takes a noticeably absurd amount of damage from AA (which is why I rarely play AA anymore). 

If they still can't admit there's a problem after that, let alone even look into it, then there's no hope. 

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Dudes. I’m not denying there might be a problem. I’m just saying that you can’t trust what you see is *actually* delivering the damage that you expect. I’m also saying very plainly that we ARE looking into it. Grok?

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2 hours ago, BMBM said:

Dudes. I’m not denying there might be a problem. I’m just saying that you can’t trust what you see is *actually* delivering the damage that you expect. I’m also saying very plainly that we ARE looking into it. Grok?

Spawn Pak36 ... shoot at a Vickers that is in front of a building/wall ... at 50m range/distance ... you will then see that most of your rounds just DISAPPEAR ! no explosion in the back of the vehicle or behind it at that wall. the round fully disappears and does no critical damage to the target at all although it should. aim for critical components. this also works with other tanks and is not limited to the Vickers

 

When you shoot a Vickers at that range the following can happen:

1) no penetration => rounds explodes on impact => front plate

2) penetration => rounds explodes inside and hits opposite armor plate => visual explosion inside tank (behind front plate)

3) penetration => rounds goes through target (overkill) and explodes behind it => visual explosion on wall behind the tank

4) round disappears => no info if shell made it into target or beyond => no visual explosion at all.

 

i am tempted to name this bug as BLACK HOLE BUG ! :D

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[Mon Nov 29 15:07:40.847 2021] WEAP 37mmpak36pzgr(3) striking external component d_frontarmor(8) of vickersmkvi(C1) at 745 m/s, KE 190072 J, thickness 18.20 mm at 68 deg, t = 139.421475 s
[Mon Nov 29 15:07:40.847 2021] WEAP Flight Time: 0.068475 s, Arming Time: 0.000000 s
[Mon Nov 29 15:07:40.847 2021] WEAP*** ACTUALLY APPLYING DAMAGE*** 35568.152368 J to d_frontarmor
[Mon Nov 29 15:07:40.847 2021] WEAP 37mmpak36pzgr(3) richocheting off d_frontarmor(8) with a thickness of 18.20 mm at 68 deg, t = 139.421475 s

Range 50m

If you hit the glacis that's what happens. All other hits (turret) and lower hull penetrate and cause interior damage to crew, ammo, fuel and engine, although the transmission soaks up quite a bit. If you want to try the Vickers survivability in the aforementioned situation, try it yourself and see how you fare.

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  • CORNERED RAT

I've posted this before but will again.

Any round with HE, with a explosive part, such as the axis anti tank ap rounds (or any HE round) is not leaving a decal on vehicles nor hit efx with a penetration. Exception to this is rockets, bazooka and shreck as they are in their own separate classification code wise. 

This is also why a HE round or AP with HE round seems to disappear when it ricochets where a solid shows sparks efx and leaves a silver "scratch" decal. 

It's been ticketed, needs dev time to track down and fix.

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  • CORNERED RAT
2 hours ago, undercova said:

Spawn Pak36 ... shoot at a Vickers that is in front of a building/wall ... at 50m range/distance ... you will then see that most of your rounds just DISAPPEAR ! no explosion in the back of the vehicle or behind it at that wall. the round fully disappears and does no critical damage to the target at all although it should. aim for critical components. this also works with other tanks and is not limited to the Vickers

 

When you shoot a Vickers at that range the following can happen:

1) no penetration => rounds explodes on impact => front plate

2) penetration => rounds explodes inside and hits opposite armor plate => visual explosion inside tank (behind front plate)

3) penetration => rounds goes through target (overkill) and explodes behind it => visual explosion on wall behind the tank

4) round disappears => no info if shell made it into target or beyond => no visual explosion at all.

 

i am tempted to name this bug as BLACK HOLE BUG ! :D

 

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1 hour ago, OLDZEKE said:

 

so you show us the time it worked properly ? ;)

 

my guess is that the chance to "fail" is much higher when you test it on campaign server

try dozens of shots ... mainly for critical components. try it even closer ... like 20m

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1 hour ago, OLDZEKE said:

I've posted this before but will again.

Any round with HE, with a explosive part, such as the axis anti tank ap rounds (or any HE round) is not leaving a decal on vehicles nor hit efx with a penetration. Exception to this is rockets, bazooka and shreck as they are in their own separate classification code wise. 

This is also why a HE round or AP with HE round seems to disappear when it ricochets where a solid shows sparks efx and leaves a silver "scratch" decal. 

It's been ticketed, needs dev time to track down and fix.

AP

when you shoot into the turret ... and it penetrates ... you see the explosion (or sparks) of shell inside the tank turret at opposite side. like it doesnt have enough power (and ofc it broke into pieces) to penetrate the 2nd armor plate.

that is how ive always known that i got a kill on gunner ... depending on the target tank.

EVERY tanker knows what i mean ! :)

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1 minute ago, undercova said:

so you show us the time it worked properly ? ;)

 

my guess is that the chance to "fail" is much higher when you test it on campaign server

try dozens of shots ... mainly for critical components

 

5 minutes ago, undercova said:

so you show us the time it worked properly ? ;)

 

my guess is that the chance to "fail" is much higher when you test it on campaign server

try dozens of shots ... mainly for critical components

It worked every time. What took awhile to get right was that camera angle. I do not appreciate accusations either.

I try, as best I can to give info and answer questions. Right to the razors edge of my NDA.

And I did do Mutiple shots. All penetrated and all created spall, shrapnel and concussion.

Guesses are easy, no reality required.

Math is math. if the round has xx velosity and xx mass and hits xx armor value at xx angle then the result is always the same because it is just math.

 

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4 hours ago, OLDZEKE said:

 

It worked every time. What took awhile to get right was that camera angle. I do not appreciate accusations either.

I try, as best I can to give info and answer questions. Right to the razors edge of my NDA.

And I did do Mutiple shots. All penetrated and all created spall, shrapnel and concussion.

Guesses are easy, no reality required.

Math is math. if the round has xx velosity and xx mass and hits xx armor value at xx angle then the result is always the same because it is just math.

 

then it happens only on campaign server as it looks like ... because i have it over there nearly every time i try to kill an ET

No matter if it is in TZ3 or in high pop

 

although when me and Saffroli tested the disappearing round on the Matty (bug report from some months ago) it was on Training Server too and it happened there too.

 

I know from the project i am working with ... we had some different results when testing on game server and test server in some occasions

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One thing  I have often wondered  is if this is part of a global issue  not with HE, but maybe related to the occasional  player not taking  damage due to latancy/packet loss.

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The last time I encountered this was with hitting the 232 with the 2pdr. I think that this may be an issue with low amounts of spall being generated when there's significant overmatch, or due to the projectile not being treated correctly after initial penetration. The lag of the target player is another good guess I think.  Basically it's anyone's guess, but in my experience close-range shots (say under 400m) v lightly armoured targets, possibly moving at speed, are the situations where I've tended to see it.

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3 hours ago, fidd said:

The last time I encountered this was with hitting the 232 with the 2pdr. I think that this may be an issue with low amounts of spall being generated when there's significant overmatch, or due to the projectile not being treated correctly after initial penetration. The lag of the target player is another good guess I think.  Basically it's anyone's guess, but in my experience close-range shots (say under 400m) v lightly armoured targets, possibly moving at speed, are the situations where I've tended to see it.

Same

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6 hours ago, fidd said:

I think that this may be an issue with low amounts of spall being generated when there's significant overmatch, or due to the projectile not being treated correctly after initial penetration.

Nope and nope. It’s all there. Latency is always an issue. Your own connection and computer matters. A lot.

Basically you shoot and compute the hit locally - computation done in millisec - then send the result in a packet to the target. If either connex is bad you know what happens.

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2 hours ago, BMBM said:

Nope and nope. It’s all there. Latency is always an issue. Your own connection and computer matters. A lot.

Basically you shoot and compute the hit locally - computation done in millisec - then send the result in a packet to the target. If either connex is bad you know what happens.

This seems to affect tanking too. There are a few players that seem to survive kill shots on a regular basis for me. And others that live long enough to just about touch cloth. 

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So I guess there is no point in aiming since what we see may not be what we see.  Sort of hard to play a game that relies on visuals for hit verification.

Edited by bmw
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On 11/29/2021 at 4:41 AM, BMBM said:

Dudes. I’m not denying there might be a problem. I’m just saying that you can’t trust what you see is *actually* delivering the damage that you expect. I’m also saying very plainly that we ARE looking into it. Grok?

So guys are looking into it for Armor too ?

Cause shot placement  is kinda vital  all depending what you are sitting in and what you got against you, if I can't rely on my aim point why play the game,  no wonder players log frustrated , goes for AAA,ATG and Armor players all alike.

 

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9 hours ago, bmw said:

So I guess there is no point in aiming since what we see may not be what we see.  Sort of hard to play a game that relies on visuals for hit verification.

Sarcasm huh? Thing is when you shoot at a distant target moving laterally, like Mo’s excellent four-hit sequence, you see the puffs well behind the plane. You don’t know which part you hit, only that you DID hit something.

Same thing with tanks. Unless you’re within say 500-1000 m depending on the quality of your optics, it is very hard to see if you hit the top of a roadwheel or just above it; oops on the 45deg angled plate or on the one beside it that you *think* is perpendicular but may in fact be at 77 degrees instead of 90.

Am I clear?

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