maty inv to heat fomr d and stug B?

[drkmouse]

jsu tput   60 + heat round into a  matty,   45  inot  bakc engine drck over hlaf  went thrue and he did not die

PLEASE TELL ME htis is a big and not anouther   maty fix for  allies....

[dfire]

You can kill it from rear with HEAT or AP from stug/4d or pak36. Hit it lower right or lower left vertical pipe (basically the sap spot). You can get a flame up to around 100-170m if you hit it square on. If you don't hit it on those areas nothing will happen. The flanks, deck, etc. won't do anything. If you can't get an angle you're better off hitting its main gun with HE to disable it, then you can move to the rear to finish it in one of the kill spots or track it and have a sapper finish it off. I killed a lot of Mattys with the pak36 last time I was axis by being sneaky and getting behind them. 

All you need is a rifleman though because the HE charge warping inside of tanks glitch still works.  Several people on both sides still do it regularly.

Edited February 3, 2022 by dfire

[drkmouse]

lo rith  lets try and get a stug  150 meter  to a matty when you have  2 prt each otehr and  a few 35  or  2lb prot them....

the  top deck on the engien block was only 20 mm the heat form both b's should ealsy  falme them if  you can lob one  on that deck.. 

[dm79]

15 minutes ago, drkmouse said:

lo rith  lets try and get a stug  150 meter  to a matty when you have  2 prt each otehr and  a few 35  or  2lb prot them....

the  top deck on the engien block was only 20 mm the heat form both b's should ealsy  falme them if  you can lob one  on that deck.. 

The angle is off mate, you would have to be floating above him and shooting down to it, or up high on a hill shooting down. Heat won't do it unless like dfire said it has a weak point. 

I think the spot he is talking about might even be the wrong thickness.

[drkmouse]

2 hours ago, dm79 said:

The angle is off mate, you would have to be floating above him and shooting down to it, or up high on a hill shooting down. Heat won't do it unless like dfire said it has a weak point. 

I think the spot he is talking about might even be the wrong thickness.

no   stug b  lobs its shots....

[undercova]

18 hours ago, dfire said:

You can kill it from rear with HEAT or AP from stug/4d or pak36. Hit it lower right or lower left vertical pipe (basically the sap spot). You can get a flame up to around 100-170m if you hit it square on. If you don't hit it on those areas nothing will happen. The flanks, deck, etc. won't do anything. If you can't get an angle you're better off hitting its main gun with HE to disable it, then you can move to the rear to finish it in one of the kill spots or track it and have a sapper finish it off. I killed a lot of Mattys with the pak36 last time I was axis by being sneaky and getting behind them. 

All you need is a rifleman though because the HE charge warping inside of tanks glitch still works.  Several people on both sides still do it regularly.

So if you can kill a Matty only from rear ... how about the same for Tiger ?? i remember how the S76 in FURY movie had to get there too ... to kill it ... even at that close range

in CRS world the Tiger wouldn't have been able to ambush those 3 Shermans ... because of the Africa camo ... and they only would have to turn their super speed turrets to kill it with 1st round while on the move too !

[drkmouse]

39 minutes ago, undercova said:

So if you can kill a Matty only from rear ... how about the same for Tiger ?? i remember how the S76 in FURY movie had to get there too ... to kill it ... even at that close range

in CRS world the Tiger wouldn't have been able to ambush those 3 Shermans ... because of the Africa camo ... and they only would have to turn their super speed turrets to kill it with 1st round while on the move too !

you can kil a tiger  wiht a  2lb side or rear wah t more do u want for gods sake,.,,

[drkmouse]

ok matty  engie gril was  20 mm

stug heat  for teh b  did teh following,,

The HEAT rounds, especially useful due to the gun’s low velocity (385 m/s), were capable of defeating between 39 and 41 mm (1.54-1.61 in) of armor between 100 and 500 m (110-550 yd), whereas at 2000 m (1.24 mi) it fell to 30 mm (1.18 in) with low hit probability. Normal provision was 54 rounds.

 

wish WE got  54 heat rounds.... and  even lobbing at  long dist wil sitl be ebogh to  easly ocermathc teh  20 mm 

[fidd]

HEAT requires a fairly "square on" strike to function well. Hitting the folded louvres over the engine deck would necessarily be at a very poor angle as far as penetration goes, were the angle of strike to be modelled. I've never read a CRS post on how HEAT operates in game. I can see HEAT rounds from the L/24 doing well against these engine deck pieces to armour, if fire at range, but not otherwise, because of their slope relative to the angle of incoming fire at shorter ranges. It'd be interesting to know how HEAT rounds function in game relative to sloped armour and angle at which it is struck.

[fidd]

10 minutes ago, drkmouse said:

you can kil a tiger  wiht a  2lb side or rear wah t more do u want for gods sake,.,,

It sounds as if you want the Tiger or Matilda "adjusted" in some way to confer similar immunity from weapons, irrespective of the performance figures for the weapons or the armour, based on your view that the Tiger should be as immortal as the Matilda is alleged to be (but actually isn't). 

[undercova]

12 minutes ago, fidd said:

It sounds as if you want the Tiger or Matilda "adjusted" in some way to confer similar immunity from weapons, irrespective of the performance figures for the weapons or the armour, based on your view that the Tiger should be as immortal as the Matilda is alleged to be (but actually isn't). 

the Tiger and most axis tanks can already gets killed by guns at ranges and angles where it shouldnt even start to think about it

 

this campaign the 25mm atg kills the 3f frontally at 800m ... easily

2pdr gun does that too to most axis tanks too

pak36 cant really hurt most allied tanks at that range frontally

 

allies also get the 47mm french atg at CPs ... so a super powerful weapon that can be spawned everywhere in town.

axis are stuck with 88s at ABs only and as dre21 already stated ... as soon as EWS pops up at DO ... your chance to spawn in and safely escape the AB/town is like non existant. and even if you make it ... EIs / ETs / EA will swarm your place instantly because the noise is too iconic and easy to locate. but you should know that since that discussion was held many times here on forums over the last few months/years. still ... you havent proven it to other axis players about your great theory of "how axis have to use the 88 properly"

 

=========================================================================================================

how about this ?
 

4.7cm Bohler M32

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=992

https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-11/thumbs/1574081687_47mm-avstrijskoe-v-muzejnoj-jekspozicii.jpg

"captured" from austrian and dutch army. they even put it on the Bren carrier later on

italian troops used it too. could be a nice addition to our itallian rifleman/smg supply.

=====================================================================================================

could also use the gun used on the PzJgr 1 as its own unit

4.7 cm Kanon PUV. vz. 36 / 4,7 cm Pak 36 (t)

https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-11/1574082410_47-mm-protivotankovaja-pushka-p_u_v_-vz_-36.jpg

captured from the czech / dutch army

[fidd]

38 minutes ago, undercova said:

the Tiger and most axis tanks can already gets killed by guns at ranges and angles where it shouldnt even start to think about it

 

this campaign the 25mm atg kills the 3f frontally at 800m ... easily

2pdr gun does that too to most axis tanks too

pak36 cant really hurt most allied tanks at that range frontally

 

allies also get the 47mm french atg at CPs ... so a super powerful weapon that can be spawned everywhere in town.

axis are stuck with 88s at ABs only and as dre21 already stated ... as soon as EWS pops up at DO ... your chance to spawn in and safely escape the AB/town is like non existant. and even if you make it ... EIs / ETs / EA will swarm your place instantly because the noise is too iconic and easy to locate. but you should know that since that discussion was held many times here on forums over the last few months/years. still ... you havent proven it to other axis players about your great theory of "how axis have to use the 88 properly"

(snippage)

I don't think I have ever suggested that the axis "do not use the 88 properly". What I have stated, is that if EWS is insufficient warning to get 88's out (or indeed any other ATG) then one needs to develop a means of gaining more reaction time, hopefully enough to get the 88's out well beyond the radius normally swiftly covered by attacking ei. I think in respect of EWS being insufficient warning, we are in agreement? This is why I've been hammering asymmetric TOE's, to allow for the removal of the attacker's crutches which are required to achieve the attrition rate where a town capture is viable. The whole town capture/attack v defender way our battles unfold, is a complete nonsense, and is really at the bottom of the "Matilda problem". If lines of sight were longer, aircraft less pervasive, and the terrain more akin the original implementation, then the 88 would remain a bloody scary weapon for Matildas, as it once was.

I'm profoundly sad that it is no longer feasible to have ATG's used as a proper linear defence, as we once used them, and in respect of axis difficulties with the 88/Matilda in tier 0, you have my sympathy to an extent. That said, and I appreciate that you personally havn't said this, I do find the oft implied notion that there needs to be equality of immunity - rather than historical performance, particularly puerile. I do think, in tier 9, that the Pak36 cannot kill a Matilda, to be a rather pessimistic view, as aside from the Matilda, it can easily kill every other vehicle in the BEF list....

Regarding captured weapons. I've long wanted to see Marders on the H39 chassis etc, so am in principle happy to see the axis able to use captured weapons provided that where they operate using exotic ammunition denied to the allies, that they be excluded. So, as it stands there's no tungsten penetrators in game such as the 6 dpr sabot round. I can live with those being disallowed. What I would not wish to see is "us" being disallowed using the 6 pdr sabot round, but a captures squeeze-bore weapon using similar tungsten cored rounds being allowed. I think that's only fair, that or completely lift the ban on exotic ammunition.

[dm79]

3 hours ago, drkmouse said:

no   stug b  lobs its shots....

It does mate but not enough to get on that rear deck, you would need to have some height over the target.

[undercova]

15 minutes ago, fidd said:

I don't think I have ever suggested that the axis "do not use the 88 properly". What I have stated, is that if EWS is insufficient warning to get 88's out (or indeed any other ATG) then one needs to develop a means of gaining more reaction time, hopefully enough to get the 88's out well beyond the radius normally swiftly covered by attacking ei. I think in respect of EWS being insufficient warning, we are in agreement? This is why I've been hammering asymmetric TOE's, to allow for the removal of the attacker's crutches which are required to achieve the attrition rate where a town capture is viable. The whole town capture/attack v defender way our battles unfold, is a complete nonsense, and is really at the bottom of the "Matilda problem". If lines of sight were longer, aircraft less pervasive, and the terrain more akin the original implementation, then the 88 would remain a bloody scary weapon for Matildas, as it once was.

I'm profoundly sad that it is no longer feasible to have ATG's used as a proper linear defence, as we once used them, and in respect of axis difficulties with the 88/Matilda in tier 0, you have my sympathy to an extent. That said, and I appreciate that you personally havn't said this, I do find the oft implied notion that there needs to be equality of immunity - rather than historical performance, particularly puerile. I do think, in tier 9, that the Pak36 cannot kill a Matilda, to be a rather pessimistic view, as aside from the Matilda, it can easily kill every other vehicle in the BEF list....

Regarding captured weapons. I've long wanted to see Marders on the H39 chassis etc, so am in principle happy to see the axis able to use captured weapons provided that where they operate using exotic ammunition denied to the allies, that they be excluded. So, as it stands there's no tungsten penetrators in game such as the 6 dpr sabot round. I can live with those being disallowed. What I would not wish to see is "us" being disallowed using the 6 pdr sabot round, but a captures squeeze-bore weapon using similar tungsten cored rounds being allowed. I think that's only fair, that or completely lift the ban on exotic ammunition.

inf EWS pops up at 900m right now when a HT/truck closes in to town.

even when you instantly react to that EWS ... you have to spawn in your HT and the 88 ... and hitch it. then start up engine which in most cases takes like 3-10 secs until engine is ready and you can drive. in the meantime the allied HT placed a bunker fru and spawned in an atg or aa. quite a lot of the ABs can be "camped/overseen" from a certain spot. so before the HT+88 are able to leave the AB ... the AA starts killing both. if it is a trench fru ... just spam LMG and spray and pray to hit crew of 88 at 800m range.

or just have a single EA above town which circles in 1-2k alt ... and "camps" the AB. you will never be able to get out of AB then. even if the axis player spawns in an AA and kills the EA ... in the meantime EI is in town/AB

 

so only thing that works is the 88 on offense or towed in from backline towns.

Edited February 3, 2022 by undercova

[fidd]

4 minutes ago, undercova said:

inf EWS pops up at 900m right now when a HT/truck closes in to town.

even when you instantly react to that EWS ... you have to spawn in your HT and the 88 ... and hitch it. then start up engine which in most cases takes like 3-10 secs until engine is ready and you can drive. in the meantime the allied HT placed a bunker fru and spawned in an atg or aa. quite a lot of the ABs can be "camped/overseen" from a certain spot. so before the HT+88 are able to leave the AB ... the AA starts killing both. if it is a trench fru ... just spam LMG and spray and pray to hit crew of 88 at 800m range.

or just have a single EA above town which circles in 1-2k alt ... and "camps" the AB. you will never be able to get out of AB then. even if the axis player spawns in an AA and kills the EA ... in the meantime EI is in town/AB

 

so only thing that works is the 88 on offense or towed in from backline towns.

I fully agree with that assessment. EWS is nowhere near enough warning to get a defence out. I would prefer to see EWS lit as soon as stuff starts to spawn from the FB, with a timer that progressively enables FMS's to be set nearer and nearer town, rather than the very short range ones we have now, which are spawnable from even before AO placement. In order to still give the attackers a fighting chance of taking the town, due to battle attrition, rather than pre-camping, asymmetric TOE's are required along the lines I've written many times before. I think that in order to get rid of false attacks, there would need to be resupply timer affecting the rapidity with which armour goes back into the TOE if stuff is spawned for the sole purpose of lighting the EWS only to AO a different town, which would be a forseeable means of gaming it. If such false attacks put the side conducting them at a severe disadvantage for a period after it was done, that might help prevent such gamey behaviour.

[undercova]

12 minutes ago, fidd said:

I fully agree with that assessment. EWS is nowhere near enough warning to get a defence out. I would prefer to see EWS lit as soon as stuff starts to spawn from the FB, with a timer that progressively enables FMS's to be set nearer and nearer town, rather than the very short range ones we have now, which are spawnable from even before AO placement. In order to still give the attackers a fighting chance of taking the town, due to battle attrition, rather than pre-camping, asymmetric TOE's are required along the lines I've written many times before. I think that in order to get rid of false attacks, there would need to be resupply timer affecting the rapidity with which armour goes back into the TOE if stuff is spawned for the sole purpose of lighting the EWS only to AO a different town, which would be a forseeable means of gaming it. If such false attacks put the side conducting them at a severe disadvantage for a period after it was done, that might help prevent such gamey behaviour.

some more icons would be cool => infantry / artillery / vehicle / tank  instead of just the 2

 

different colors would be nice and the above mentioned icons change their color depending on the distance to town

vehicles + tanks + artillery:

- 3k = green // 2k = yellow // 1k = red

infantry:

- 1.5k = green // 1k = yellow // 500m = red

 

the light and heavy ews icon could be stay as it is

[Dre21]

5 hours ago, undercova said:

So if you can kill a Matty only from rear ... how about the same for Tiger ?? i remember how the S76 in FURY movie had to get there too ... to kill it ... even at that close range

Well all for Hollywood dramatics,  the lead tank fury I think had actually the 17 pounder ( it had the muzzle break) there was a S76 in the bunch out of the 4.

Also in real life , Pitts tank would have been the 1st that would have went up in flames, German Panzer Commanders were trained to go after the long guns 1st , so it would have been Fury 1st then the S76 and after that the 2 remaining S75 .

In our game it be something like this,  Tiger will take out the lead Tank ( fury) the other 3 would turn fire at Tiger and one of them 3 shots would take out the gun , end of Tiger.

[dfire]

11 hours ago, drkmouse said:

lo rith  lets try and get a stug  150 meter  to a matty when you have  2 prt each otehr and  a few 35  or  2lb prot them....

the  top deck on the engien block was only 20 mm the heat form both b's should ealsy  falme them if  you can lob one  on that deck.. 

I'm not tryna start an armor debate, I'm just telling you how to kill it. And what has worked for me to kill them. Hitting the engine deck from a flank at the same elevation is such a thin target that you'd probably be better off shooting the barrel with HE. It wouldn't be much thinner of a target and there's a lot more HE than HEAT ammo if I recall correctly. If you can manage to get to the rear it's far easier to shoot the kill spot. There used to nit even be a kill spot for the axis tier0 stuff (except 88 obviously) for the longest time, so at least we have that now, even if it is a PITA to get to.

I found it much easier to sneak a pak from a dfms to get to the kill spot. If you take a tank, your audio will just give you away well beforehand and you'll be a beacon for everything. During the start of ews id get a pak out as fast as i could as far as i could in the dir of their fb and wait for the mattys to post up. Usually youll kill 1 and then ei will swarm you or another ET will kill, but 1 pak36 for 1 matty is a good trade.

If allied win this map I'll probably be going back to axis so I look forward to the challenge of taking some out, as tedious as it can sometimes be.

 I don't know if you play intermission at all, but if I see you online we can test the Matty against the pak36, 4D, and stug. So you can see the kill spot, see how much leeway there is around the kill spot to still kill it, see how far it can be done from, and the maximum angle it works from.

Edited February 4, 2022 by dfire

[undercova]

12 hours ago, dfire said:

I'm not tryna start an armor debate, I'm just telling you how to kill it. And what has worked for me to kill them. Hitting the engine deck from a flank at the same elevation is such a thin target that you'd probably be better off shooting the barrel with HE. It wouldn't be much thinner of a target and there's a lot more HE than HEAT ammo if I recall correctly. If you can manage to get to the rear it's far easier to shoot the kill spot. There used to nit even be a kill spot for the axis tier0 stuff (except 88 obviously) for the longest time, so at least we have that now, even if it is a PITA to get to.

I found it much easier to sneak a pak from a dfms to get to the kill spot. If you take a tank, your audio will just give you away well beforehand and you'll be a beacon for everything. During the start of ews id get a pak out as fast as i could as far as i could in the dir of their fb and wait for the mattys to post up. Usually youll kill 1 and then ei will swarm you or another ET will kill, but 1 pak36 for 1 matty is a good trade.

If allied win this map I'll probably be going back to axis so I look forward to the challenge of taking some out, as tedious as it can sometimes be.

 I don't know if you play intermission at all, but if I see you online we can test the Matty against the pak36, 4D, and stug. So you can see the kill spot, see how much leeway there is around the kill spot to still kill it, see how far it can be done from, and the maximum angle it works from.

with current pak36 speed ... almost impossible to sneak up on the 6 of a Matty

slowest pak ingame right now ... even all allied ones are almost double faster

 

at least they finally fixed it and will bring it live with next patch. who knows when that will happen

tbh such a thingy should be patched with a hotfix. that pak36 is a super vital combat unit for axis ... specially since we are in Tier 0 right now

[dfire]

18 minutes ago, undercova said:

with current pak36 speed ... almost impossible to sneak up on the 6 of a Matty

slowest pak ingame right now ... even all allied ones are almost double faster

 

at least they finally fixed it and will bring it live with next patch. who knows when that will happen

tbh such a thingy should be patched with a hotfix. that pak36 is a super vital combat unit for axis ... specially since we are in Tier 0 right now

Agreed