Axis air HE rounds.

[TREVOR8]

Over the last few months I had very high hopes that HE would be working as I expected it to vs. Allied aircraft and vehicles using axis rides. When the initial "new patch" rolled out...HE seemed to be working like I expected it to. Since the roll back, and subsequent patches, It really seems to me HE is doing much less effect. I am asking for an honest answer... was the HE Shrapnel numbers toned down? When the initial load out patch came out....so many people dropping those 50kg and 500kg at the same time seemed to crash the server and I am wondering if some extra 000s or somthing were taken out of the code? We all know bombs don't do crap on tanks but im talking about 20mm HE and 30mm HE fired by the 109s and 190 vs allied aircraft. They are not hitting like they did before now even before the latest hotfix.  Sometime this weekend if anyone wants to hook up on the real server and test let me know...ill fly drone. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by trevor8

[hazziewaz]

I love watching spitfires/hurricanes just chew up 3 rounds of 30mm cannon without falling apart. I was expecting more from the great G-6 when I started flying it after the patch.

Edited June 26, 2021 by hazziewaz

[Mosizlak]

I hit halsey's p38 last night with 4x40mm bofor rounds. 1 on the first pass, then 3 on the front of his plane while he strafed me and flew off. 

Sorry, 4x40mm is enough to bring down a b17 lol. 

This happens with regularity now. Something changed, and not for the better, unless you fly. 

[jwilly]

Should be easy to set up a repeatable demonstration.

[Kidd27]

10 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

I hit halsey's p38 last night with 4x40mm bofor rounds. 1 on the first pass, then 3 on the front of his plane while he strafed me and flew off. 

Sorry, 4x40mm is enough to bring down a b17 lol. 

This happens with regularity now. Something changed, and not for the better, unless you fly. 

All planes got a BMBM damage fix a little while back,  8mo? a year? that buffed the damage models up. I noticed a a difference immediately with the bofor.

Ive not had a chance since the last patch

[dwalin]

The biggest oddity for me continues to be HE bombs falling on towns.  Before the patch got recalled I dropped 17 50kg bombs from a 111 into an AB we were actively attacking.  The rest of the 32 bombs (I think that number is right?) were spread nicely around the town.  Small town too, I believe Sambreville.  I got shot down by the end of the mission, but wound up with zero kills and zero damages, even though people in the town reported my bombs hitting all sorts of tanks in the AB (I was the only bomber there, so it had to be mine).  Still wonky.

[Kidd27]

10 minutes ago, dwalin said:

The biggest oddity for me continues to be HE bombs falling on towns.  Before the patch got recalled I dropped 17 50kg bombs from a 111 into an AB we were actively attacking.  The rest of the 32 bombs (I think that number is right?) were spread nicely around the town.  Small town too, I believe Sambreville.  I got shot down by the end of the mission, but wound up with zero kills and zero damages, even though people in the town reported my bombs hitting all sorts of tanks in the AB (I was the only bomber there, so it had to be mine).  Still wonky.

Im not sure if its something the stats are not picking up, or the bomb vs/inf tanks is off.

Its certainly both sides. There are many accounts of bombs hitting tanks without even getting a damage.

[dwalin]

3 minutes ago, Kidd27 said:

Im not sure if its something the stats are not picking up, or the bomb vs/inf tanks is off.

Its certainly both sides. There are many accounts of bombs hitting tanks without even getting a damage.

Oh yeah, yeah.  Certainly both sides.  I'm not saying it's one over the other.  Just the most recent example of it.  I played both sides this campaign and noticed the same problem.

[blggles]

13 hours ago, Kidd27 said:

All planes got a BMBM damage fix a little while back,  8mo? a year? that buffed the damage models up. I noticed a a difference immediately with the bofor.

Ive not had a chance since the last patch

Think it was a Scotsman audit, and yeah the planes are tougher, though none ought probably take 4 x 40mm. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by blggles

[TREVOR8]

I have not played any allied but bomb HE repeatedly gives zero damages on tanks even landing right next to them. 

[stankyus]

18 hours ago, trevor8 said:

I have not played any allied but bomb HE repeatedly gives zero damages on tanks even landing right next to them. 

I get whacked by bombs but yes, from time to time dropping on a tank results in no damage in the AAR also. On the subject also I did 4 passes on a 232 in a p38 stitching him from tail to nose from the side and down the deck. No kill, no wheels flying off. That was very frustrating especially cause he was camping one of our FMSs. Got shot down so was not able to go after him anymore…. Felt like when we were shooting only ball ammo. 

[hotrod]

The damage model was great for a week or so after they did their thing then something happened and everything went to crap

[vanapo]

On 6/27/2021 at 2:49 AM, Mosizlak said:

Something changed, and not for the better, unless you fly. 

Believe me, the last part isn't true for any plane that's main weaponry consists of  HE. That is: 109e4, 109f2,109f4,109G2,109g6,190A3,190A4,110c,110fb,He111,Ju87b,A20, Blenheim Mark IV,Hurri2d.

[bus0]

E-4 killed my commander hatch down

 

[stankyus]

4 hours ago, bus0 said:

E-4 killed my commander hatch down

 

Lol a F2 killed Canukplf outright. Had one smoke a ch7 cs tank. I shot him down. Just checking stats it was an F4 and no kill credit on the ch7. But he got that engine smoking white.

[Mosizlak]

10 hours ago, vanapo said:

Believe me, the last part isn't true for any plane that's main weaponry consists of  HE. That is: 109e4, 109f2,109f4,109G2,109g6,190A3,190A4,110c,110fb,He111,Ju87b,A20, Blenheim Mark IV,Hurri2d.

Air rounds, dunno. Dont fly but 20 sorties a map. 

Bofors 40mm round? Yes, something has changed. Either with the round, or the target. 

I probably have top5 ground to air kills all time in this game and bofors usage. I know when something has changed. 

 

[vanapo]

On 6/30/2021 at 1:27 AM, Mosizlak said:

Bofors 40mm round? Yes, something has changed. Either with the round, or the target. 

I probably have top5 ground to air kills all time in this game and bofors usage. I know when something has changed. 

This is congruent with my game impressions as well. The 30mm grenade of the 109G6 used to be very efficient if you managed to hit something with it. This is not the case anymore, and the same is probably true for the Bofors. Same is true for bombs as well btw. The whole CAS situation is somewhat broken right now - and this is true for both sides and branches.

Edited July 1, 2021 by vanapo

[bogol]

So the @KardehKHE fix has been officially neutered by CRS. Great JOB.... on alienating the pb...

[Mosizlak]

Just hit an A20 with seven 40mm bofor rounds, no kill.  He started smoking a bit then RTBing. 

Ieper-Pop FB just now. Congrats on flying that abomination lol

[bersi]

game bugged and now?

[bogol]

@XOOM what is CRS's take on this? The silence is deafening. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by bogol

[HATCH]

There have been no changes to the HE ordnance data since the May 2018 HE Audit. (See bofors_he history.jpg, hispano_he history.jpg, mg151_he history.jpg, and mgff_he history.jpg for reference)

There have been no changes to the Flight Model damage level values since the completion of the FM Damage Level Audit in Jul 2020. (See DB7_DM_audit_history.jpg for reference)

The only things that I am aware of changing in regards to any HE is a) the movement of the bombs to STO's (Server Tracked Objects) to allow them to be utilized beyond visual range, and b) the recent HE fix that prevented non-penetrating shrapnel from magically appearing inside of ones armor. The latter was not applicable for air equipment as non-penetrating HE shell shrapnel was only disabled on ground units, and then re-enabled for that class vehicle after the fix. Neither should make HE any less destructive nor planes any harder.

If everything was great with the FM DM release last July with no serious anomalies reported about it for the last year, why all the sudden now?

We'll continue to look for anything out of the ordinary, but with nothing more than anecdotal evidence and no specific and 100% repeatable examples to look at, there isn't a lot more for me or Scotsman to specifically address at this time.

[jwilly]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:06 AM, Mosizlak said:

Just hit an A20 with seven 40mm bofor rounds, no kill. 

I believe Scotsman has commented before that one Bofors hit would take down most aircraft that are modeled in-game. Other sources have said that one or two 37mm, two or three 30mm, or eight to ten 20mm hits normally would take down a B-17. I'm doubtful that the A-20 was significantly stronger than a B-17.

Seems like maybe from the beginning, aircraft were modeled as able to withstand unrealistic amounts of damage energy, and/or contact-exploding shells were modeled with aggregate blast and fragmentation effects applying too little damage energy.

[Mosizlak]

1 hour ago, HATCH said:

There have been no changes to the HE ordnance data since the May 2018 HE Audit. (See bofors_he history.jpg, hispano_he history.jpg, mg151_he history.jpg, and mgff_he history.jpg for reference)

There have been no changes to the Flight Model damage level values since the completion of the FM Damage Level Audit in Jul 2020. (See DB7_DM_audit_history.jpg for reference)

The only things that I am aware of changing in regards to any HE is a) the movement of the bombs to STO's (Server Tracked Objects) to allow them to be utilized beyond visual range, and b) the recent HE fix that prevented non-penetrating shrapnel from magically appearing inside of ones armor. The latter was not applicable for air equipment as non-penetrating HE shell shrapnel was only disabled on ground units, and then re-enabled for that class vehicle after the fix. Neither should make HE any less destructive nor planes any harder.

If everything was great with the FM DM release last July with no serious anomalies reported about it for the last year, why all the sudden now?

We'll continue to look for anything out of the ordinary, but with nothing more than anecdotal evidence and no specific and 100% repeatable examples to look at, there isn't a lot more for me or Scotsman to specifically address at this time.

I've been saying it for awhile. 

Ingame and out. So have a lot of people.  Most don't bother with these forums anymore for various reasons, like guys with cap letters responding to people with "0/10".  (not you, I appreciate the response with no snark)

[GrAnit]

Rats, do you have a set of standard test cases for weapon performance that you can test between patches?  That would allow you to test for unintended consequences that may happen when you mod the spaghettis code you inherited.

Edited July 7, 2021 by GrAnit