Matilda 8 days camp: 1839 kills dead 159

[fidd]

10 minutes ago, Dre21 said:

So who changed it then , if you didn't ? 

You are stuck on the hole part, never ever have I said there was a hole .

It was said ( not by me ) that exactly the spot we are talking about one could score a kill with HEAT, now one can not ( per njord88 ) exactly that player also posted a picture that the turret has changed , you claim it has not , I'm not sure but I look at that picture and I can definitely say something has changed , or are you telling me it was just covered with a texture but magically that spot now doesn't do anything anymore when it does get hit by HEAT ( per Njord88).

Actually that's not necessarily true. It could be a change in the way HEAT rounds work, it needn't be the way Matilda's armour works at all. (It takes both the armour values and the performance of a round to calculate a penetration or otherwise. That you can no longer penetrate with a HEAT round actually tells us nothing, other than one (or both) of them has changed. It doesn't prove (logically) that the Matilda's armour is the cause of the failure to penetrate.

I grant you it's the more likely contender, after the changes to prevent spamming with 20mm fire, however, in my view, CRS should keep an open mind for now as to the cause. It might be the armour, but it might, just as easily, be an issue with HEAT rounds generally, or the HEAT round from the L/24 specifically.

None of us know which until CRS look at it.

Edited January 20, 2021 by fidd

[njord88]

Just now, fidd said:

Not in the least, I'm saying that you need to experiment to find new ways of defending, and for that, (insofar as I've worked out methods to counter the Matilda) it will require organisation. In other words, so far as the method I worked out is concerned goes, simply reacting to EWS in the usual way, will not work. I wasn't implying the axis lack organisation, merely saying my method required it, over and above the usual amount of organisation in game. 

Sorry!!

the only thing we can do now is track the maty!  

one thing is to say you can  use sapper, i have real problem with lag in game, if in a city battle i dont use the sapper no more, because mine heat charges will go inside the tank, or in a other place!

i have seen a group of good players (vets) ambush a maty,  they could not kill it, with stugs and 4 ds... they tracked and left

if next map is like this, you guys will be playing against ai towers!

88 are easy target from km's and air...  the only thing we have to trasnport it is a halftrack that goes realy slow, so when you set ews we have only what 1 min to deploy! even when we se alieds get a fb, we will have 5 min at max to get in position, and if we have a city with no hills or bigforest the 88 is easly visible and honest useless

 

 

[Dre21]

OUCH 88 vs Matilda

Matilda Mk II 34 kills 42 deaths k/d 0.81  as of Jan 20 

Matilda Mk II CS 6 kills 5 deaths k/d1.2   as of Jan 18 20:55

31 minutes ago, fidd said:

Actually that's not necessarily true. It could be a change in the way HEAT rounds work, it needn't be the way Matilda's armour works at all. (It takes both the armour values and the performance of a round to calculate a penetration or otherwise. That you can no longer penetrate with a HEAT round actually tells us nothing, other than one (or both) of them has changed. It doesn't prove (logically) that the Matilda's armour is the cause of the failure to penetrate.

I grant you it's the more likely contender, after the changes to prevent spamming with 20mm fire, however, in my view, CRS should keep an open mind for now as to the cause. It might be the armour, but it might, just as easily, be an issue with HEAT rounds generally, or the HEAT round from the L/24 specifically.

None of us know which until CRS look at it.

Well there was no read me in any updates that any of the HEAT rounds changed , and CRS claims they make every change public .

I can't for sure say that there was not a change made to the HEAT round but I can for sure say ( pics proof it )  that there is a change on the turret.

[Dre21]

7 hours ago, Grunt768 said:

109 cannons tier 0 kills a mattie 1 burst all positions an 88 dose a sapper, baby atg, ect ect, i have never read a thread with so much cry baby rubbish as this one my god, you guys are rabbling like crack heads

Is that why you idled through town last time so no sapped could get to you ? Only reason why you got tracked was because I put a charge on the ground and hoped you will drive over it at the time it goes off , which did work but after that you had friendly INF around and no sapper could get to you. Even throwing smoke at you via a stug didn't help cause after the 3 or 4th hit even through the smoke you nailed my gunner.

[BMBM]

38 minutes ago, Dre21 said:

So who changed it then , if you didn't ? 

To the best of my knowledge the texture has always looked like that. You’ll have to provide a screenshot of it with a scope graphic for me to believe otherwise.

The mantlet as such has undergone no change since its debut - it is a single piece so wherever you shoot at it the results are the same. The armor values did however change last year for the first time since its creation, to actual historical values (it had been too weak by quite a margin).

As stated, 75mm L37 AP and HEAT cannot penetrate the Matilda anywhere except maybe for a lucky zero angle hit to its rear. The rounds just don’t have it.

If perchance HEAT did penetrate before the armor audit, that would be an error which has since been corrected.

[fidd]

20 minutes ago, Dre21 said:

OUCH 88 vs Matilda

Matilda Mk II 34 kills 42 deaths k/d 0.81  as of Jan 20 

Matilda Mk II CS 6 kills 5 deaths k/d1.2   as of Jan 18 20:55

Well there was no read me in any updates that any of the HEAT rounds changed , and CRS claims they make every change public .

I can't for sure say that there was not a change made to the HEAT round but I can for sure say ( pics proof it )  that there is a change on the turret.

The pics only prove the artwork change. The reason of the lack of HEAT penetration may be the round, or round-type, or may be related to armour change, or may, simply be that both armour and round are performing correctly, and that the HEAT round never should have been penetrating that particular portion of the turret. I don't know if the differences between cast and RHA are modelled, nor do I know if in game, the angle of strike of a HEAT round (ie on a curved surface rather than a square-on hit on flat armour) is taken into account when calculating the efficacy of the HEAT round.

All I'm saying it that we need, and in particular CRS needs, to keep an open mind on the cause without jumping to conclusions that it must be the armour that's changed. It probably is, but it has nothing to do with the appearance, as the artwork is completely unrelated to the damage model. You could paint them bright pink with "glass" port-holes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the damage model.

45 minutes ago, njord88 said:

Sorry!!

the only thing we can do now is track the maty!  

one thing is to say you can  use sapper, i have real problem with lag in game, if in a city battle i dont use the sapper no more, because mine heat charges will go inside the tank, or in a other place!

i have seen a group of good players (vets) ambush a maty,  they could not kill it, with stugs and 4 ds... they tracked and left

if next map is like this, you guys will be playing against ai towers!

88 are easy target from km's and air...  the only thing we have to trasnport it is a halftrack that goes realy slow, so when you set ews we have only what 1 min to deploy! even when we se alieds get a fb, we will have 5 min at max to get in position, and if we have a city with no hills or bigforest the 88 is easly visible and honest useless

 

 

All I'm going to say is that you have all the tools you need. It's the way you go about defending that's the reason you're not stopping them. The issue with (any) ATG's being useless in defence due attacker arriving first/FMS game-mechanics/terrain problems is universal, all sides suffer from it. I grant you it's a problem in tier 0, but it's far from insurmountable, even with those issues. Like I said, you need to think, experiment, innovate. Just as the allies did when the Tiger first came out. For the first campaign or two it was a bloody monster, now we've learned how to cope with it, both at a tactical and strategic level.

Edited January 20, 2021 by fidd

[undercova]

1 hour ago, BMBM said:

To the best of my knowledge the texture has always looked like that. You’ll have to provide a screenshot of it with a scope graphic for me to believe otherwise.

The mantlet as such has undergone no change since its debut - it is a single piece so wherever you shoot at it the results are the same. The armor values did however change last year for the first time since its creation, to actual historical values (it had been too weak by quite a margin).

As stated, 75mm L37 AP and HEAT cannot penetrate the Matilda anywhere except maybe for a lucky zero angle hit to its rear. The rounds just don’t have it.

If perchance HEAT did penetrate before the armor audit, that would be an error which has since been corrected.

so you guys literally made the Matty immortal ... unless you are in the back of it. OR you are lucky that your 88 round penetrates the matty fronally ... but will barely happen because of all the packet loss ... where 75% of your rounds just disappear and due to your tracers the Matty easily spots your 88 and insta kills you.

/clap

/facepalm

 

So why cant we have similar situations with Tiger ??

Why did they have to shoot the "Fury" Tiger into the back to kill him ? That S76 could have easily killed the Tiger frontally while he was hidden in the bush ... if it was a CRS S76 ... !!! lol

Edited January 20, 2021 by undercova

[BMBM]

3 minutes ago, undercova said:

so you guys literally made the Matty immortal ... unless you are in the back of it. OR you are lucky that your 88 round penetrates the matty fronally ... but will barely happen because of all the packet loss ... where 75% of your rounds just disappear and because of tracers the Matty easily spots your 88 and insta killds you.

/clap

/facepalm

 

So why cant we have similar situations with Tiger ??

Why did they have to shoot the "Fury" Tiger into the back to kill him ? That S76 could have easily killed the Tiger frontally while he was hidden in the bush ... if it was a CRS S76 ... !!! lol

We simply fixed what was wrong with it. It had faulty armor values, leaks and missing faces which allowed it to be strafed dead by EA and even pz2 iirc. To make matters worse its fuel tanks were mis-placed and without their proper protection.

All this was done to correct factual errors, the same way as we correct any error found by us or by the players. That it took 20 years to fix it is of course disappointing, for during that time it has been ahistorically vulnerable and have led axis players to faulty expectations of success against it.

The Matilda isn’t immortal. Track and/or degun it outside town and it’s useless. Up close, smoke and sap. If you think it’s such a beast, give it a whirl and see how far you get.

Afaik the Tiger doesn’t have any such similar issues. That the Matilda is stronger in its tier than the Tiger, beastly as it is, in its tier, is an altogether different matter. Recall that the Matilda is only king for a single week wheras the tier2 &3 heavy hitters are good for the campaign duration.

The Firefly and Achilles (UK only, and limited in numbers) were added because up until it was added the Brits went up against the Tiger and other high-performing tanks with Crusader III and Churchill VII as their top kit - the Tiger, pzIVG and StugG all being contemporary to it as well as the M4A3(76). I don’t know if you ever played Brit in those years but I can assure you it was quite the challenge.

[delems]

*** All I'm going to say is that you have all the tools you need. 

That statement is so full of crap I can hardly believe it.

No panzer kills the mattie tier 0. (ok 1 in 100 might; not a tactic)

ATGs don't kill the mattie (88 requires 2 players and had what, 30 kills tier 0?).

There was 1 air kill on mattie by a tier 0 axis aircraft. (maybe 2, just saw Stuka killed 1, not sure what tier)

Every town is brit on the front line nearly.

 

For me, until the mattie and garrison issue is dealt with the game is a farce.

You'll see me sniping a bit maybe or in a KM town, but not much more.

[KEMPI]

3 minutes ago, delems said:

*** All I'm going to say is that you have all the tools you need. 

That statement is so full of crap I can hardly believe it.

No panzer kills the mattie tier 0. (ok 1 in 100 might; not a tactic)

ATGs don't kill the mattie (88 requires 2 players and had what, 30 kills tier 0?).

There was 1 air kill on mattie by a tier 0 axis aircraft.

Every town is brit on the front line nearly.

 

For me, until the mattie and garrison issue is dealt with the game is a farce.

You'll see me sniping a bit maybe or in a KM town, but not much more.

Do you need me to post a ATG and Tank guide for killing matty too.

You said the same for sappers.

 

You know it is exactly the same for us when Tigers first come into the tiers.

[delems]

*** You know it is exactly the same for us when Tigers first come into the tiers.

Completely false.

Zooka, ATGs, DAC, tanks, sappers all kill the tiger.

[BMBM]

10 minutes ago, delems said:

For me, until the mattie and garrison issue is dealt with the game is a farce.

Dealt with how exactly? 

[rohmu]

Once again, people who haven’t played on the axis side since Matty’s changes and who have no idea, know it better than others. Charming

[delems]

*** Dealt with how exactly? 

Well, first having Europe not 90% British would help.

In the past 3 divisions out of 10 were Brit, so no more than 30% of the front had matties.

That alone might solve the issue, at least on the playability level. (I'll just play in non brit town areas)

Second, obviously axis has to have more/better ways to deal with the mattie, how idk.

Maybe ask the axis tankers.

[rohmu]

BMBM you rats shout in forum in red how the game should be historical, but just as suddenly in 1940 England has taken over 90% of Europe in game. To my knowledge, they were on a strip of about 5 miles off the coast of France.

[fidd]

15 minutes ago, delems said:

*** All I'm going to say is that you have all the tools you need. 

That statement is so full of crap I can hardly believe it.

No panzer kills the mattie tier 0. (ok 1 in 100 might; not a tactic)

ATGs don't kill the mattie (88 requires 2 players and had what, 30 kills tier 0?).

There was 1 air kill on mattie by a tier 0 axis aircraft. (maybe 2, just saw Stuka killed 1, not sure what tier)

Every town is brit on the front line nearly.

 

For me, until the mattie and garrison issue is dealt with the game is a farce.

You'll see me sniping a bit maybe or in a KM town, but not much more.

It's not my job to explain to you how to do it, but I'm entirely confident that Matilda led attacks can be stopped cold, or seriously depleted, using only the kit you have, and without any game-mechanic or performance changes, or requiring numeric imbalances. I suggested 75% as the likely success-rate, and I stand by that. It's not so much what you use, it's how you use it. The rest you'll need to figure out. If you wish confirmation, I'll happily run it past a Rat on the strict understanding it's never passed on or "hinted at" to the axis, and he can confirm the likely efficacy. Like I said, it's perfectly straight-forwards, and if not 'fool-proof', at least fairly idiot-resistant. It does, however, require a modest amount of organisation and comms. But not much.

[fidd]

15 minutes ago, rohmu said:

Once again, people who haven’t played on the axis side since Matty’s changes and who have no idea, know it better than others. Charming

The changes to the Matty - regarding HEAT round penetration - are completely immaterial to the tactics I have in mind.

[rohmu]

2 minutes ago, fidd said:

The changes to the Matty - regarding HEAT round penetration - are completely immaterial to the tactics I have in mind.

Theory is always different from reality. But again, you just don't know what you're talking about.

[fidd]

8 minutes ago, rohmu said:

BMBM you rats shout in forum in red how the game should be historical, but just as suddenly in 1940 England has taken over 90% of Europe in game. To my knowledge, they were on a strip of about 5 miles off the coast of France.

That's your "counter-factualism". Without that you'd have 95% of your Tiger's on the Eastern Front, the Luftwaffe engines running on synthetic fuel from coal and the 8th AF and Bomber Command bombing the living daylights out of your factories. Just as well really....?

[BMBM]

The game is ahistorical in numerous ways, more than I care to enumerate. What we do try though, is to give you equipment that is as true to RL as our code allows wrt specifications and performance. In that dimension too there’s a lot to improve - eg dispersion, HE effects etc - stuff that’s being worked on without pause.

There are changes and additions afoot that will tip the scales somewhat and, possibly, change the battle dynamics in more ways than I dare describe until (if) deployed. 

[rohmu]

Not 1940

[delems]

*** What we do try though, is to give you equipment that is as true to RL as our code allows

And it's great getting all the new stuff in game... so thanks for the work.

[stankyus]

22 hours ago, xcas said:

axis LMG fix-- lol---- Let the allied discrediting BEGIN     1     2    3       GO

So, it was broken?  3   2   1  GO!

[undercova]

34 minutes ago, fidd said:

It's not my job to explain to you how to do it, but I'm entirely confident that Matilda led attacks can be stopped cold, or seriously depleted, using only the kit you have, and without any game-mechanic or performance changes, or requiring numeric imbalances. I suggested 75% as the likely success-rate, and I stand by that. It's not so much what you use, it's how you use it. The rest you'll need to figure out. If you wish confirmation, I'll happily run it past a Rat on the strict understanding it's never passed on or "hinted at" to the axis, and he can confirm the likely efficacy. Like I said, it's perfectly straight-forwards, and if not 'fool-proof', at least fairly idiot-resistant. It does, however, require a modest amount of organisation and comms. But not much.

i am one of the most experienced anti tank players in this game ... i've killed so many allied tanks in this game ... some years i had 600-700 tank kills in 1 campaign. with sapper / pak / panzer. trust me .. i know what i am talking about. after playing for such a long time anti tank units you have a very good feeling for ranges and spots. i was able to guess distance to ETs very good so i didnt have to check it with the range finder anymore ... just aimed with Tiger main gun at ETs at 1800m ... kabbboooom. Same for Panzerschreck. I am able to shoot/hit ETs at 500m range just by guessing and aiming. After so many years you know the weak spots of allied tanks and how most allied players use the tank. Then suddenly a patch came to fix that turret vulnerability of the Matty and instantly the tank becomes a much bigger beast than before. When 3 veterans in Tigers attack the Matty frontally and from side the same time at a distance less than 500m ... pounding the Matty for 30+ secs with 88mm rounds ... but no one is able to kill it ... you definitely know that SOMETHING IS WRONG !

I got used to many WTF moments in this game ... but over the last few weeks it just skyrocketed.

[stankyus]

12 minutes ago, undercova said:

i am one of the most experienced anti tank players in this game ... i've killed so many allied tanks in this game ... some years i had 600-700 tank kills in 1 campaign. with sapper / pak / panzer. trust me .. i know what i am talking about. after playing for such a long time anti tank units you have a very good feeling for ranges and spots. i was able to guess distance to ETs very good so i didnt have to check it with the range finder anymore ... just aimed with Tiger main gun at ETs at 1800m ... kabbboooom. Same for Panzerschreck. I am able to shoot/hit ETs at 500m range just by guessing and aiming. After so many years you know the weak spots of allied tanks and how most allied players use the tank. Then suddenly a patch came to fix that turret vulnerability of the Matty and instantly the tank becomes a much bigger beast than before. When 3 veterans in Tigers attack the Matty frontally and from side the same time at a distance less than 500m ... pounding the Matty for 30+ secs with 88mm rounds ... but no one is able to kill it ... you definitely know that SOMETHING IS WRONG !

I got used to many WTF moments in this game ... but over the last few weeks it just skyrocketed.

Given your history - there is a reason why you killed so many Allied tanks.  You really want to chest thump?