Infantry lag kills issues in town #4669

[GOPHUR]

Merged a thread here.

I have an old ticket for this but can;t find it so created a new one #4669.

Don't have any sweeping new technologies to rewrite how MMO FPS games work (we did that already) but want to track this important issue none the less.

[mrwinkie]

Merged a thread here.

I have an old ticket for this but can;t find it so created a new one #4669.

Don't have any sweeping new technologies to rewrite how MMO FPS games work (we did that already) but want to track this important issue none the less.

Gophur...we (well most of us) arent asking you to re-write some kind of UBER code that revolutionizes the way FPS games are played.

But seriously.... I have never seen lag kills like this EVER in WWIIOL...and havent seen lag kills like this in a FPS since the days we played Quake on a 33.6 modem... something changed with the last major patch for inf play.

At least in 1.31 and below you had a chance to kill an ei as they entered a CP, and 50% of the time it was the I kill you, you kill me variety. Now its either Die THEN see the ei on deathcam, or both of you die even though the enemy you THOUGHT you saw had his back to you.

[branko]

For all avoidance of doubt.

As far as I can see, from all the reports here - elsewhere - and in-game experiences - It's The Predictor Code

(We know this changed in 1.31 - This "issue" has only existed since 1.31.)

• We don't think that this is lag between server and client - Or only Australians would be posting in this topic
  
• We don't think this is client to client lag - As that causes SIMU-KILLS ... those still exist, but are not the reported outcome from this issue.
  

It COULD be an issue "on the server" (for some reason packets getting held up before being forwarded - which was why the brief period it was thought this only happened in Flag-Buildings was interesting ... but that was disproved).

Glad it's got a ticket - Hoping for a found & fixed

Edited October 5, 2010 by branko

[stdyhand]

Just a thought, but could this problem have anything to do with the fact that Inf. now has to turn slower? Just wondering because the problem seems to occur when players are turning.

[Lob12]

Just a thought' date=' but could this problem have anything to do with the fact that Inf. now has to turn slower? Just wondering because the problem seems to occur when players are turning.[/quote']

no.

[matamor]

Merged a thread here.

I have an old ticket for this but can;t find it so created a new one #4669.

Don't have any sweeping new technologies to rewrite how MMO FPS games work (we did that already) but want to track this important issue none the less.

Muchos gratias signor!

Merci beaucoup and thank you very much.

[stdyhand]

no.

What makes you think its not related? Players once complained about "warping" issues when EI turned too sharply and now we got problems with EI not appearing as they enter a CP and at least for me are turning corners shortly before killing me. If I wait outside a CP I can see the EI fine as hes running straight. But if I wait around a corner it doesn't matter if I know hes coming or not because the game will not show him once he comes around or through the turn. Just a thought and something to consider.

[mrwinkie]

I find this almost laughable now.... because EVERYONE is exploiting it.

Last night while trying to recap ARLON bunker, I got 7 kills. How.... I was upstairs running back and forth in front of the stair well. I noticed a lot of Axis players also doing the same downstairs to try and kill me.... running back and forth in front of the stairwell, both of us using the lag to try and gain the upper hand.

Yes...we as the players adapt... but at the same time this totally kills the realism.

[Nick]

What makes you think its not related? Players once complained about "warping" issues when EI turned too sharply and now we got problems with EI not appearing as they enter a CP and at least for me are turning corners shortly before killing me. If I wait outside a CP I can see the EI fine as hes running straight. But if I wait around a corner it doesn't matter if I know hes coming or not because the game will not show him once he comes around or through the turn. Just a thought and something to consider.

I think what is happening is this, between infantry position updates, either sent to the server or from the server or both, the predictor code tries to predict were the infantry is, based on its last known heading, by turning sharply you are able to 'trick' the code into thinking you are in one place, when in fact you are in another.

I said a couple of weeks ago that people were exploiting this and sure enough it's getting exploited more and more.

[binky]

I think what is happening is this, between infantry position updates, either sent to the server or from the server or both, the predictor code tries to predict were the infantry is, based on its last known heading, by turning sharply you are able to 'trick' the code into thinking you are in one place, when in fact you are in another.

I said a couple of weeks ago that people were exploiting this and sure enough it's getting exploited more and more.

Unfortunately there is no "predictor" code in game, so that angle isn't going to work. There is smoothing done though, to play connect the dots while rendering between network updates.

I'd guess the network updates aren't getting enough priority so you are further ahead on your client than the enemy client is seeing.

You are at a huge disadvantage if you are sitting still (zero network delta updates) and your attacker is moving.

[romzburg]

Unfortunately there is no "predictor" code in game, so that angle isn't going to work. There is smoothing done though, to play connect the dots while rendering between network updates.

I'd guess the network updates aren't getting enough priority so you are further ahead on your client than the enemy client is seeing.

You are at a huge disadvantage if you are sitting still (zero network delta updates) and your attacker is moving.

Yeah, I think we need more position updates with less time between each update.

They wanted to smooth out the movement of avatars who would do the zig-zag dance, warping all over as they ran across a field that we used to complain about before.

So instead of having our computer's client game code take another players' x,y,z position packet plus direction/speed vector update and have our computer immediately render him at that spot and moving in that direction, (causing a warp if there was a significant change from the *previous* packet), they now have our computer's client code smoothly transition that player from wherever our computer shows him currently to the new packet's position info.

Which means if he changes direction and speed quickly, he will get into a room in a building, or up the stairs, or wherever, while your computer is still in the process of making him move smoothly through the other room.

This is a problem only for infantry, because only infantry can change *relative* direction/speed (vector) fast enough to take advantage of the code's time-wasting movement smoothing.

I think the solution is to get more, more, more "x,y,z/vector" packets, and get them with shorter time intervals in between, so our computers are rendering the other players with more specific points more often.

It's like drawing a sine curve using straight line segments. The more little end-points you define, the more accurate your drawn curve will reflect the real curve.

Currently the code looks at the latest x,y,z/vector info and says "How did he get to this point from the last one? Let me draw a nice path for that." And while your computer is rendering the other player doing a nice, smooth movement from where it thought he was before top where it thinks he is now, the other player is shooting you in the face.

If you do that position/vector calculation a lot more often, you have a lot more fidelity with the player's position, and so you reduce lag.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[elrod]

Exactly. Being killed in a bunker by an enemy that hasn't rendered yet is an issue that completely ruins gameplay. I don't want to go back to 1.30 but fixing this should be priority number 1.

I've never really experienced this issue before until last Axis Squad night. Nasty allied over pop town defense had me dying to Shermans that only rendered after I was dead. Got to see them in my death spiral on the way out. WTF. I logged off and havent played since then. I've seen some nasty WTF bug's but this one is definately a game killer for me also. If I see it again unfortunately I think I'm finished here. Even though the Allies were over pop server population is at an all time low WTF!! Rendering issues at low pop. There were not that many people involved in the battle. Wait they wernt rendering anyway so how could I tell how many to begin with.

[stdyhand]

We've had players logging out because of this bug and I haven't seen some of them again. I fear were going to lose a good deal of the player base to this issue. Very few if anyone who do not have this problem. This isn't just a bug. Its a STATE of EMERGENCY. Were gonna have squashed rats all over the streets of Luxembourg soon. Time to rant *Waves sigh* FIX BUG FIX BUG FIX BUG FIX BUG FIX BUG FIX BUG FIX BUG

I've never really experienced this issue before until last Axis Squad night. Nasty allied over pop town defense had me dying to Shermans that only rendered after I was dead. Got to see them in my death spiral on the way out. WTF. I logged off and havent played since then. I've seen some nasty WTF bug's but this one is definately a game killer for me also. If I see it again unfortunately I think I'm finished here. Even though the Allies were over pop server population is at an all time low WTF!! Rendering issues at low pop. There were not that many people involved in the battle. Wait they wernt rendering anyway so how could I tell how many to begin with.

[Nick]

Unfortunately there is no "predictor" code in game, so that angle isn't going to work. There is smoothing done though, to play connect the dots while rendering between network updates.

Predictor code, if the server doesn't receive a network packet telling it where you are, it 'predicts' where it thinks you are based on your last known heading. Smoothing does what you say it smooths out the movement between updates. Both are probably adding to the problem.

Edited October 5, 2010 by n1ckm

[wolfie69]

I had a new one the other day guarding a cp. An EI came up from behind two of us and he came up through the darn floor. He ran past us and the only thing that was showing was gun and head.

Wolfie

[Werkelijk]

here's an interesting bit of info.

JOKER007 wasn't affected by the lag issue tonight in breda?

ran in and he started firing right as my head popped over the stairs.

strange no?

however it was very present in Baarle-hertog though

4 kills 3 minute sortie defending CP

and 7 kills 14 minute sortie defending CP from the outside of it unlike the first.

[twig]

Problem also being reported on the Mac version. See the following thread:

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showthread.php?p=5326291&posted=1#post5326291

[snailtrail]

To help this issue maybe CRS could extend the capture zone to outside the building so you don't have to be in the building to capture it.

[GOPHUR]

To help this issue maybe CRS could extend the capture zone to outside the building so you don't have to be in the building to capture it.

Area based capture focused on the facility marker would be great but would not fix the issue.

[xenon84]

BUMP

This sucks & makes me want to unsub!

[GOPHUR]

You're bumping a post that was commented on an hour ago? I feel the frustration man. I really do. We're actively working on improving this. Keep the faith.

[yokilla]

You're bumping a post that was commented on an hour ago? I feel the frustration man. I really do. We're actively working on improving this. Keep the faith.

Amen.

[matamor]

Great improvment so far!!!! GJ rats, keep it on

mat

[xenon84]

BUMP BUMP for the sake of this game BUMP

[Werkelijk]

I will agree that 1.32 has made an improvement on this issue, but it is still there, only not as delayed as before.

now you'll die but you get to see just a small bit of the enemy like maybe their gun barrel coming around the corner, or part of their elbow.